What do you think of the planned hunter mechanic changes?

grimjack · 10/10/06, 6:00 PM

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...r/changes.html

I like the look of it as theory. It seems like it will work out to break even. Do you think Blizzard will mess it up or it will be good?

Kasonic · 10/10/06, 6:10 PM

Seems all around positive. Decreasing the weighted value placed on slow weapons, increasing itemization options, and making Aimed Shot more of a burst/pvp weapon than an absolute must-spec. I don't play a Hunter, but if I did I think I'd be happy.

• DeeNogger · 10/10/06, 6:16 PM

i guess this branch of discussion couldnt have fit in this thread: http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=8811

• Wodin · 10/10/06, 6:20 PM

Well, it'll add some skill to playing a hunter, and removes a lot of the drawbacks of the old system. I worry that it's a little too much like simplified rogue/warrior mechanics (AS -> Auto -> simple -> auto -> arcane -> auto -> simple -> etc...) but that's something for the class devs to look at and decide.

◊ Praetorian · 10/10/06, 6:22 PM

Being able to drop traps at will while in combat will do wonders for hunter utility. That's a huge change.

Ayle · 10/10/06, 6:27 PM

Misdirection looks HUGE for tank transitions as well as allowing a hunter and even all classes to "open up" at the start of the fight sooner as the MT builds up some good hate.

I'd say that these changes were well worth the wait for hunters!

Pontiac · 10/10/06, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Being able to drop traps at will while in combat will do wonders for hunter utility. That's a huge change.

That's actually one of the things I'm happiest about. FD and Trap being unlinked gives us lot more flexibility. Hunters will become MUCH more effective at providing Crowd Control options in five-man groups.

The changes to Aimed Shot and the addition of Steady Shot completely eliminate the "one bow to rule them all" restrictions that I've always chafed under.

And finally, FINALLY, I can justifiably spec Beast Mastery again and not feel like a gimp.

Zurai · 10/10/06, 6:31 PM

Hunter scaling still sucks ass :(

We go from scaling 100% based on weapon DPS (but moderated by weapon speed) and 100% based on attack power, to scaling ~50% of weapon DPS (still moderated by weapon speed, just two different valid speeds now) and 126% based on attack power.

Copernicus · 10/10/06, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Wodin

Well, it'll add some skill to playing a hunter, and removes a lot of the drawbacks of the old system. I worry that it's a little too much like simplified rogue/warrior mechanics (AS -> Auto -> simple -> auto -> arcane -> auto -> simple -> etc...) but that's something for the class devs to look at and decide.

There will always be an optimal rotation, based on weapon and spec. The big difference with the hunter changes is that there's now more than one possible rotation. Before it was only Multi-Shot and Aimed Shot. Now there's Arcane Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, and Kill Command that need to be worked in, in addition to the all the semi-passive proccing abilities. Rapid Fire also radically changes a hunter's shot selection and rotation while it is active.

As a side note, does Kill Command use the universal cooldown?

Elendril · 10/10/06, 6:38 PM

i'm stoked beyond belief for the expansion, and these changes are a big part of it. i've been saying for a while that the biggest change hunters needed from a mechanical perspective was a fix for aimed shot, and we're getting it. there's still some tweaking that needs to be done, but from a PVP and PVE perspective, hunters are getting so much cool stuff. traps in combat, a REAL instant damage spell we can use while kiting, etc.

◊ Oggie · 10/10/06, 6:42 PM

I love mostly (while not being a hunter) the fact that hunters are -insanely- mobile now. The only casting time ability you have is Steady and that's only 1.5.

I forsee a lot of kiting in your future.

Phlis · 10/10/06, 6:47 PM

While I love all the changes I think blizz missed 1 crucial thing which would round out hunters perfectly. An instant cast Pet HoT and an instant cast Pet Flash heal. Thats just about all we'd need to keep our pets alive without sacrificing any DPS at all, besides MP costs. Would have been decent as BM Talents, a pet hot and a pet swift mend right below it.

On the other hand I really like everything else, it's the one whiny thing I had to get out, now that I'm pretty much taken aback by the talents and don't care so much about the aimed shot changes.

Zurai · 10/10/06, 7:08 PM

Originally Posted by Copernicus

As a side note, does Kill Command use the universal cooldown?

Do Intimidation and Bestial Wrath trigger UC? I imagine the answer's the same.

Gonkish · 10/10/06, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Oggie

I forsee a lot of kiting in your future.

I am totally fucked.

◊ Oggie · 10/10/06, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by Phlis

While I love all the changes I think blizz missed 1 crucial thing which would round out hunters perfectly. An instant cast Pet HoT and an instant cast Pet Flash heal. Thats just about all we'd need to keep our pets alive without sacrificing any DPS at all, besides MP costs. Would have been decent as BM Talents, a pet hot and a pet swift mend right below it.

On the other hand I really like everything else, it's the one whiny thing I had to get out, now that I'm pretty much taken aback by the talents and don't care so much about the aimed shot changes.

Well, we haven't seen pet abilities.

I think this, specificly, is something we're going to see (since that other stuff was confirmed fake).

Originally Posted by Gonkish

Originally Posted by Oggie

I forsee a lot of kiting in your future.

I am totally fucked.

Yeah, this is why my hunter alt will stay sub 70. Always.

• Dinian · 10/10/06, 8:01 PM

Like many others, the changes excite me. However, I've been around long enough to still be wary and will wait for the final verdict when the game actually is out and I'm in 5, 10, 25, and 40 man instances.

If rogues continue to maintain top tier dps, with hunters, mages, and warlocks all right below then I'll be happy as far as raids are concerned.

Pulling, kiting, and other utility roles seem strengthened too -- clearly Misdirection was introduced to make a hunter slot in the 25 man raid a near necessity.

WTB more details on pet scaling though. I loved my pet dearly leveling up and the magical transition to uselessness of my pet when I started raiding was clearly not a surprise but also very dissatisfying.

I'm looking forward to raiding with fluffy again.

grimjack · 10/10/06, 8:03 PM

Originally Posted by DeeNogger

i guess this branch of discussion couldnt have fit in this thread: http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=8811

I was thinking that was about talents but this was more about changes to the way a hunter works. Right now I don't know any hunter, for example, who would dream of speccing Wyvern Sting unless they were strictly PvP. But these changes may cause some people to go deep into the survival try since they can use it in combat after this change.

My biggest concen is how Rhok'delar is going to fair after this change. The crossbow from BWL is a nice upgrade but I like having my bow. However after this change and re-itemization, they make the gap between the two larger, I'll be disappointed.

• Dinian · 10/10/06, 8:05 PM

The absolute most dissapointing thing about these changes is how late they are. If the arcane/steady/rap changes were in place when AQ was released the Striker set would be a clear upgrade.

Oh well, here's to hoping for great gear early on in the expansion :)

Fendryl · 10/10/06, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by Copernicus

As a side note, does Kill Command use the universal cooldown?

Do Intimidation and Bestial Wrath trigger UC? I imagine the answer's the same.

Just asked someone to check ingame, BW doesn't, Intimidation does. Go figure =)

Zurai · 10/10/06, 9:02 PM

Hah, well I guess it's up in the air! Actually it's most likely to follow intimidation, since BW doesn't make the pet "do" anything and both Int and KC do.

Steelfleece · 10/10/06, 9:07 PM

I doubt Kill Command will trigger the global cooldown. It would seem really awkward if it did.

• Arawethion · 10/10/06, 9:10 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

i'm stoked beyond belief for the expansion, and these changes are a big part of it. i've been saying for a while that the biggest change hunters needed from a mechanical perspective was a fix for aimed shot, and we're getting it. there's still some tweaking that needs to be done, but from a PVP and PVE perspective, hunters are getting so much cool stuff. traps in combat, a REAL instant damage spell we can use while kiting, etc.

Here's something a friend and I were talking about yesterday:

If you want cast either 1 or 2 Steady Shots between Auto Shots, doesn't that make the ideal "real" weapon speeds 1.5 and 3.0, depressingly similar to what you have now?

RK · 10/10/06, 9:56 PM

Edit: Misread the first time.

I think you mean 1.5 and 3.0 after quiver haste (so probably something like 1.7 and 3.4), although to realistically allow for lag and reaction time to actually fit the steady shots in between autoshots you mean 1.6 or 1.7 after quiver haste (so maybe 1.9 and 3.8?)... but then you need time as well to fit in potential multishots and arcane shots and kill commands...

It's much more variable than before. Perhaps they've made an error and there will still be a mathematical best rotation which is mana-sustainable and requires a particular speed weapon and where that rotation is more important than increasing white DPS. Right now the major problem is that keeping an older, slower weapon is better than upgrading to a higher level, faster weapon. It doesn't look like that will remain the case any longer. There may turn out to be an ideal speed, but it won;t be the dominating factor it once was.

And if you're BM spec, it seems pretty likely that the ideal weapon is just "as damaging as you can, and the faster the better, and +crit mods help".

Moridin · 10/10/06, 10:38 PM

hmm, steady shot at 1.5 makes a 3sec after quiver pretty neat yeah, still.

Steelfleece · 10/10/06, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Originally Posted by Elendril

i'm stoked beyond belief for the expansion, and these changes are a big part of it. i've been saying for a while that the biggest change hunters needed from a mechanical perspective was a fix for aimed shot, and we're getting it. there's still some tweaking that needs to be done, but from a PVP and PVE perspective, hunters are getting so much cool stuff. traps in combat, a REAL instant damage spell we can use while kiting, etc.

Here's something a friend and I were talking about yesterday:

If you want cast either 1 or 2 Steady Shots between Auto Shots, doesn't that make the ideal "real" weapon speeds 1.5 and 3.0, depressingly similar to what you have now?

This is only true so long as you can endlessly spam Steady Shots, which I'm not at all sure is possible.