What do you think of the planned hunter mechanic changes? - Page 2

Dinian · 10/10/06, 7:01 PM

Like many others, the changes excite me. However, I've been around long enough to still be wary and will wait for the final verdict when the game actually is out and I'm in 5, 10, 25, and 40 man instances.

If rogues continue to maintain top tier dps, with hunters, mages, and warlocks all right below then I'll be happy as far as raids are concerned.

Pulling, kiting, and other utility roles seem strengthened too -- clearly Misdirection was introduced to make a hunter slot in the 25 man raid a near necessity.

WTB more details on pet scaling though. I loved my pet dearly leveling up and the magical transition to uselessness of my pet when I started raiding was clearly not a surprise but also very dissatisfying.

I'm looking forward to raiding with fluffy again.

grimjack · 10/10/06, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by DeeNogger

i guess this branch of discussion couldnt have fit in this thread: http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=8811

I was thinking that was about talents but this was more about changes to the way a hunter works. Right now I don't know any hunter, for example, who would dream of speccing Wyvern Sting unless they were strictly PvP. But these changes may cause some people to go deep into the survival try since they can use it in combat after this change.

My biggest concen is how Rhok'delar is going to fair after this change. The crossbow from BWL is a nice upgrade but I like having my bow. However after this change and re-itemization, they make the gap between the two larger, I'll be disappointed.

Dinian · 10/10/06, 7:05 PM

The absolute most dissapointing thing about these changes is how late they are. If the arcane/steady/rap changes were in place when AQ was released the Striker set would be a clear upgrade.

Oh well, here's to hoping for great gear early on in the expansion :)

Fendryl · 10/10/06, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by Copernicus

As a side note, does Kill Command use the universal cooldown?

Do Intimidation and Bestial Wrath trigger UC? I imagine the answer's the same.

Just asked someone to check ingame, BW doesn't, Intimidation does. Go figure =)

Zurai · 10/10/06, 8:02 PM

Hah, well I guess it's up in the air! Actually it's most likely to follow intimidation, since BW doesn't make the pet "do" anything and both Int and KC do.

Steelfleece · 10/10/06, 8:07 PM

I doubt Kill Command will trigger the global cooldown. It would seem really awkward if it did.

• Hamlet · 10/10/06, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

i'm stoked beyond belief for the expansion, and these changes are a big part of it. i've been saying for a while that the biggest change hunters needed from a mechanical perspective was a fix for aimed shot, and we're getting it. there's still some tweaking that needs to be done, but from a PVP and PVE perspective, hunters are getting so much cool stuff. traps in combat, a REAL instant damage spell we can use while kiting, etc.

Here's something a friend and I were talking about yesterday:

If you want cast either 1 or 2 Steady Shots between Auto Shots, doesn't that make the ideal "real" weapon speeds 1.5 and 3.0, depressingly similar to what you have now?

RK · 10/10/06, 8:56 PM

Edit: Misread the first time.

I think you mean 1.5 and 3.0 after quiver haste (so probably something like 1.7 and 3.4), although to realistically allow for lag and reaction time to actually fit the steady shots in between autoshots you mean 1.6 or 1.7 after quiver haste (so maybe 1.9 and 3.8?)... but then you need time as well to fit in potential multishots and arcane shots and kill commands...

It's much more variable than before. Perhaps they've made an error and there will still be a mathematical best rotation which is mana-sustainable and requires a particular speed weapon and where that rotation is more important than increasing white DPS. Right now the major problem is that keeping an older, slower weapon is better than upgrading to a higher level, faster weapon. It doesn't look like that will remain the case any longer. There may turn out to be an ideal speed, but it won;t be the dominating factor it once was.

And if you're BM spec, it seems pretty likely that the ideal weapon is just "as damaging as you can, and the faster the better, and +crit mods help".

Moridin · 10/10/06, 9:38 PM

hmm, steady shot at 1.5 makes a 3sec after quiver pretty neat yeah, still.

Steelfleece · 10/10/06, 9:41 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Originally Posted by Elendril

i'm stoked beyond belief for the expansion, and these changes are a big part of it. i've been saying for a while that the biggest change hunters needed from a mechanical perspective was a fix for aimed shot, and we're getting it. there's still some tweaking that needs to be done, but from a PVP and PVE perspective, hunters are getting so much cool stuff. traps in combat, a REAL instant damage spell we can use while kiting, etc.

Here's something a friend and I were talking about yesterday:

If you want cast either 1 or 2 Steady Shots between Auto Shots, doesn't that make the ideal "real" weapon speeds 1.5 and 3.0, depressingly similar to what you have now?

This is only true so long as you can endlessly spam Steady Shots, which I'm not at all sure is possible.

Phlis · 10/10/06, 9:48 PM

Originally Posted by RK

And if you're BM spec, it seems pretty likely that the ideal weapon is just "as damaging as you can, and the faster the better, and +crit mods help".

I think 2.0, with serpents swiftness and quiver(2.6-2.8), will be the best. You'll pretty much always be able to get steady shots in without interupting aimed shot and it drops to about 1.5 when AotH procs, so still able to wrap around steady shots if steady is not affected(It probably is though), which means you get 2 extra auto shots in per aoth proc, and your auto shots, and even multishots, won't be that small at all.

Same thing, pretty much with pet DPS, you want to find a mean between damage and attack speed so that the individual attacks, kill commands, aren't negligable. 1.5-2.0 is probably a pretty good range of pet attack speeds, depending on whatever the new pet attacks are. 0.96-1.28 when frenzied is a nice range.

Tzeni · 10/10/06, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by RK

Edit: Misread the first time.

I think you mean 1.5 and 3.0 after quiver haste (so probably something like 1.7 and 3.4), although to realistically allow for lag and reaction time to actually fit the steady shots in between autoshots you mean 1.6 or 1.7 after quiver haste (so maybe 1.9 and 3.8?)... but then you need time as well to fit in potential multishots and arcane shots and kill commands...

It's much more variable than before. Perhaps they've made an error and there will still be a mathematical best rotation which is mana-sustainable and requires a particular speed weapon and where that rotation is more important than increasing white DPS. Right now the major problem is that keeping an older, slower weapon is better than upgrading to a higher level, faster weapon. It doesn't look like that will remain the case any longer. There may turn out to be an ideal speed, but it won;t be the dominating factor it once was.

And if you're BM spec, it seems pretty likely that the ideal weapon is just "as damaging as you can, and the faster the better, and +crit mods help".

It is variable, I agree... but I don't think global cooldown affects your auto shot. Correct me if I'm wrong, I could well be mistaken on that.

But if that WAS the case, then arcane shot shouldn't do anything to your autoshot timer and multishot would only have that slight Multi delay that's always been in the game.

Edit: same for kill command, if it ahd a global CD.

Glaurong · 10/10/06, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Phlis

While I love all the changes I think blizz missed 1 crucial thing which would round out hunters perfectly. An instant cast Pet HoT and an instant cast Pet Flash heal. Thats just about all we'd need to keep our pets alive without sacrificing any DPS at all, besides MP costs. Would have been decent as BM Talents, a pet hot and a pet swift mend right below it.

On the other hand I really like everything else, it's the one whiny thing I had to get out, now that I'm pretty much taken aback by the talents and don't care so much about the aimed shot changes.

I'm sorry but it would piss me off if they gave me more heals. Mend pet is a soloing deal, you get in a bit over your head you have an option. On a raid, if our pet is doing respectibly damage it should be getting renews. Between that and a judgement they shouldn't be in health problems any more than the rogues. Most definately with each faction getting another healing class.

EDIT

Originally Posted by Phlis

I think 2.0, with serpents swiftness and quiver(2.6-2.8), will be the best. You'll pretty much always be able to get steady shots in without interupting aimed shot and it drops to about 1.5 when AotH procs, so still able to wrap around steady shots if steady is not affected(It probably is though), which means you get 2 extra auto shots in per aoth proc, and your auto shots, and even multishots, won't be that small at all.

Same thing, pretty much with pet DPS, you want to find a mean between damage and attack speed so that the individual attacks, kill commands, aren't negligable. 1.5-2.0 is probably a pretty good range of pet attack speeds, depending on whatever the new pet attacks are. 0.96-1.28 when frenzied is a nice range.

Sorry I keep seing people mention IAotH. I really dont see any reason to use it with the new mp/5 aspect, both sides get kings, we all get AB, steady shot has no cool. New ranks of AotH are going to have to be damn sexy to beat out mana regen. Am I missing something?

Steelfleece · 10/10/06, 10:33 PM

We'll have JoW/BoW and possibly Mana Spring, that will help. One will have to see how much.

Glaurong · 10/10/06, 10:43 PM

Oh I'm alliance side and if I'm trying to push my dps I can still go oom real quick.