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Old 10/10/06, 10:51 PM   #31
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Well, for BM at least...

1.7 base speed weapon yields 1.07 speed after IAOTH, quiver, and SS. Over 10 seconds, that'll give you 9.33 attacks. At 50% chance for 59 mana (for the level 58 judgement - I don't know offhand what the higher level one gives back), that's 275 mana.

Now add in 1.67 arcane shots and 9.26 steady shots (haste affects cast speed if it works like aimed shot) for another 322 mana.

That's 1202 mana out and 597 mana in over 10 seconds.

Now assume aspect of the viper and 250 int. Your attack speed drops to 1.23 and your steady shot cast time is 1.25.

You get 8.13 autoshots, 1.67 arcane shots, and 8 steady shots in 10 seconds, for a total of 525 mana from judgement. Then you get 125 mana from viper, for a total of 650 mana in and 1077 mana out.


More mana-efficient? Yes. More damage-efficient? Debatable.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and rank 1 arcane shot only costs 25 mana pre-efficiency. If they keep the 20% AP and only rank up the +damage with each rank, rank 1 arcane is going to be mana-free damage with judgement up.

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Old 10/10/06, 10:52 PM   #32
LadyVex
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Glaurong
Oh I'm alliance side and if I'm trying to push my dps I can still go oom real quick.
How is that possible? Paying strict attention to my rotation it's almost impossible to go out of mana unless it's a mana draining fight.

Use major manas as SOON as you have the amount of mana gone that it gives back, use the night dragon breath whenever it is up.

Unless you're not using consumables it should be damned near impossible to ever hit OOM as an alliance hunter.

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Old 10/10/06, 11:07 PM   #33
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Do alliance with any amount of CS run out of mana at all? I mean, I do not even come close to running out of mana on Patchwerk, the biggest manadump fight in the game, using SUPERIOR mana potions and demonic runes as Horde.

If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule

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Old 10/10/06, 11:24 PM   #34
Elendril
KINDOFABIGDEAL
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Steelfleece
Do alliance with any amount of CS run out of mana at all? I mean, I do not even come close to running out of mana on Patchwerk, the biggest manadump fight in the game, using SUPERIOR mana potions and demonic runes as Horde.
i OOM on sapphiron constantly, but i can only use 5 piece CS with my frost gear. i end up using demonic/dark runes to keep me up there, since i'm spamming frost pots.

i don't come close to running out of mana on any other fights, with 8 piece CS and mana regen enchant on bracers :-P i may use a combat pot now and then, but that's it.

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Old 10/10/06, 11:40 PM   #35
krucifix85
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warlock
 
Barthilas
Seeing you brought up Saph... in your "worst shutdown" thread Elendril, I see that 2 hunters are #1,2 dps.

Is that due to Hunter's relying less on their items (i guess scaling worse) than all the other dps classes (seeing you would be all in FrR gear, i assume), or is that something unique to the fight?

(i haven't seen / read much on the fight, at all)

http://ctprofiles.net/13134

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Old 10/10/06, 11:52 PM   #36
Elendril
KINDOFABIGDEAL
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
hunters can basically constantly DPS, while melee classes can't meaningfully attack sapph while he's in the air and can't always effectively reposition themselves to keep attacking while avoiding blizzard, while mages are on decurse duty for the life drain. hunters are actually really gear dependant because so much of their damage comes from attack power, but the mechanics of the fight really favor hunters.

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Old 10/10/06, 11:53 PM   #37
Pontiac
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub
Originally Posted by Zurai
EDIT: Oh yeah, and rank 1 arcane shot only costs 25 mana pre-efficiency. If they keep the 20% AP and only rank up the +damage with each rank, rank 1 arcane is going to be mana-free damage with judgement up.
They've already announced that healing and damage spells will only get a percentage of +heal or +dam based on the level of the spell. It would be a spectacular oversight if they didn't do the same thing with Arcane, and one they'd almost certainly correct in short order.

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Old 10/11/06, 12:09 AM   #38
krucifix85
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warlock
 
Barthilas
But even with 0+damage gear, Arcane Shot is still getting 20% of your AP (if that's the way the spell is designed at lower levels).

I think that's more what Zurai meant.

http://ctprofiles.net/13134

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Old 10/11/06, 12:15 AM   #39
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by krucifix85
But even with 0+damage gear, Arcane Shot is still getting 20% of your AP (if that's the way the spell is designed at lower levels).

I think that's more what Zurai meant.
Correct.

So, rank 1 will be ~200-250 damage for 25 mana, with a 50% chance to get at least 59 mana back.

Now THAT is mana efficiency.

It's possible they'll change that %AP based on relative level, but I doubt it. You're still sacrificing a big chunk or more or less unmitigated damage to get that mana efficiency.

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Old 10/11/06, 12:21 AM   #40
Eej
Soda Popinski
 
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Eej
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
It's entirely possible that only the level 60+ versions of Arcane Shot will be getting bonus from RAP. For example, only the ranks of Garrote past 60 have the Silence component.

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Old 10/11/06, 12:34 AM   #41
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Possible - but Garrote isn't part of a complete rewrite of the mechanics of a class, either. I think we'll see AP play a part in every rank of Arcane Shot. How much AP? Take a guess.

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Old 10/11/06, 12:42 AM   #42
Glaurong
King Hippo
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by LadyVex
Originally Posted by Glaurong
Oh I'm alliance side and if I'm trying to push my dps I can still go oom real quick.
How is that possible? Paying strict attention to my rotation it's almost impossible to go out of mana unless it's a mana draining fight.

Use major manas as SOON as you have the amount of mana gone that it gives back, use the night dragon breath whenever it is up.

Unless you're not using consumables it should be damned near impossible to ever hit OOM as an alliance hunter.
I have a non ideal weapon speed so if I want to push my dps I clip my cycle. If I clip my cycle I go oom. Major manas are fucking stupid expensive so I've shyed away from them so far. Mageblood + 2x lesser mana oil is most I go for mana usually. Far as runes go I have a shitload sitting in my bags but with our healers I dont bother using them.

EDIT

Originally Posted by Zurai
Possible - but Garrote isn't part of a complete rewrite of the mechanics of a class, either. I think we'll see AP play a part in every rank of Arcane Shot. How much AP? Take a guess.
Percentage normalized to AP per DPS at each level. Using lvl 60 and 14 as a reference is my bet

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

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Old 10/11/06, 12:46 AM   #43
Eej
Soda Popinski
 
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Eej
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Where's your Nightfin and Combat Mana Potions? I mean come on, Superior and Combat Manas are like my bread and butter. Also pop your Demonic Runes like crazy unless you're in a fight like Thaddius or Loatheb. For those fights, just use NDBs.

Maybe you should just go more with more stuff for mana, get some mp5 on your bracers and some CS pieces.

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Old 10/11/06, 12:56 AM   #44
Glaurong
King Hippo
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Eej
Where's your Nightfin and Combat Mana Potions? I mean come on, Superior and Combat Manas are like my bread and butter. Also pop your Demonic Runes like crazy unless you're in a fight like Thaddius or Loatheb. For those fights, just use NDBs.

Maybe you should just go more with more stuff for mana, get some mp5 on your bracers and some CS pieces.
Hunter was a reroll from my priest which was a reroll from my warrior so I have 0 pvp rep or rank.

Bottom line, if I was in a guild where people got into mechanics and min/maxed like me I would go all out and probably not have mana problems. Thing is, I'm not. Blowing 3-5g worth of consumables (or more) on attempts got real old real quick when I'm only one of a few doing so.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

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Old 10/11/06, 12:57 AM   #45
 Shalas
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Glaurong
Originally Posted by Zurai
Possible - but Garrote isn't part of a complete rewrite of the mechanics of a class, either. I think we'll see AP play a part in every rank of Arcane Shot. How much AP? Take a guess.
Percentage normalized to AP per DPS at each level. Using lvl 60 and 14 as a reference is my bet
AP per dps doesn't scale with level, and there isn't really any reason to make it scale with level.

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