I haven't seen this addressed anywhere, but is there an "extra swing rating" or equivalent being implemented in TBC? And if so, does 2% worth of rating on HoJ mean 2% at level 53, and less at 60?

They'll probably implement an upgraded version of it, sort of like the upgraded version of Blackhand's Breadth called Bladehand's Breadth. The latter being like 28 crit rating and Use: 200 AP for 15 seconds or something.

Blue, too.

I think one of the CMs talked about this somewhat indirectly, didn't mention specific items but kind of alluded to how they wanted to make sure people weren't still using the same lvl 50 items at lvl 70 because they're "just so damn good." I don't doubt we'll see improvements over some of these that will make people finally upgrade.

Going to :lol: when HoJ is still a valid trinket at level 70. How do you improve upon the trinket, short of changing it to reduce its quality or bringing players one step closer to a free five point talent investment?

edit: That is, I'm well aware that it's possible for trinkets to easily out class the Hand of Justice, but I don't see it possible for other trinkets to have the same kind of functionality without it being HoJ and some critical strike rating, which would be dull/boring.

edit 2: \/ You can't do that with a trinket like HoJ, though. There's no "extra hit rating," just like there's no way to reduce the effectiveness of the Darkmoon mana regen trinket.

You don't. You nerf it so it's only as good as it is at level 60, but doesn't work as well at level 70.

Throw some crit rating or resilience rating on it, or some other bonus. Remove the AP bonus and change it to crit rating, who knows. The improvement doesn't need to be huge, just needs to be slightly more than what you've currently got to make it desirable.

Same issue with the BWL trinkets. They all scale on a % and don't use a rating. Will there be a better shaman damage trinket than the Natural Alignment Crystal? Will they nerf Lifegiving Gem?

Anything that gives as much dmg bonus or close to it without having the increased mana cost would be a significant improvement over the NAC.

Edit - I'm confused by all the talk of "how could there ever be a better XX than YY." Can you guys honestly not envision some item changed in any way as to make it more desirable? Even if it takes a slight downgrade on the primary attribute that makes the original so nice, it can still be made overall better through some small addition of stats that improves upon other areas.

Bleh, I was beaten to it.

I was going to say essentially the same thing - I'll be buggered if people are still using HoJ in the expansion.

The problem with the new rating systems as people have predicted they will function, is that different kinds of stats are going to scale differently with level.

+ stats will continue to scale down in a linear manner, a level 60 stat item will be roughly 84% as effective a level 70 stat item

+ Crit/Hit Rating items will scale down exponentially, a level 60 item is predicted to be 50% effective at 70 (and a level 40 item only 25% effective)

Anything that retains a % rating like the HoJ retains 100% of it's value with levels, and since the HoJ just adds attacks, it also scales perfectly with gear. It's epic gear that makes the HoJ epic quality.

And I agree on the BWL trinkets, the good ones will still be good at 70 unless they are nerfed for the exact same reason.

Either give me a level 70 version of LGG or I'll cry :(

All they need to do is add something interesting like a Use ability (similar to Bladefist's breath, it gets 200 AP for 15 sec) and it will replace it.

The only current trinkets that I don't see that will be clearly better is LGG and a few of the mana trinkets (Warmth of Forgiveness).

well they need to just add trinkets that add more than 2% chance for an extra swing and 20 AP.

Would you use HoJ over a trinket with 4% to crit? or 3% to crit, and 40 AP? no.

Problem is that active trinkets (which Blizzard shows a preference to) are -very- hard to model effectively outside of a few exceptions and so showing that they work better than HoJ is really difficult. Some of the trinkets we consider most powerful (KotS) are that good because they have short cooldowns, scaling effects, and because they are easy to link with other cooldowns (blade flurry) and so you'll know they always stack and add to one another.

Meanwhile other -good- trinkets with longer cooldowns don't really work so well.

Not exactly on topic, but I don't really want to start a new thread. I can see why lifegiving gem will be just as good at 70 as it is now... but I fail to see why it's so good right now. You get a maybe 1600 - 1700 heal every 5 minutes, at the cost of a trinket that could reduce your incoming damage against most bosses by that much every 20 seconds. The only time you'd want to use it, is in an emergency situation where any other defensive trinket would've proactively helped reduce that emergency from even happening. The only situation I can think of using it is where you'd be in a postion where you can't get any other heals and it's imperative that you get one: Maexxna and Loatheb. I can't see why people sport it as a general use trinket.

I don't know about you, but I doubt Blizzard can ever make something that would make me want to replace my exceptional Aegis of Preservation.

Agreed. Even on Loatheb, I'd rather have a 2nd dps trinket, I dont need LGG to live, especially with JoL up.

Looking at the new 60-70 trinkets, makes me think blizz was absurd for putting in the whole crit rating crap. They say it was to counteract stuff from level 60 being too good at 70, yet they go and add trinkets like this that are already a clear upgrade. They don't want people using Blackhand's at 70, so they nerf the crit value at 70 on it, but go and add this. Why didn't they just do what they're doing now and add all these dual use trinkets that're obviously better, and leave our old items alone?

Maybe they'll introduce a 'proc rating' where level 60 procs have a lower chance of ... proccing when you're a level 70.

I think Rune of the Guard Captain is a fantastic example of why they needed to change to the rating system.

would be a good excuse to upgrade thunderfury!!

Only if you spec Improved Thunder Clap.

I would much prefer an upgrade quest, for an improved version of TF, at 70.