When the guild believes it is dying, it is.

That's because you want to hear the details that can be fixed.. or might be able to be fixed.. instead of the vauge "progress". Thing is, you shouldn't be depending on exit interviews to tell you what's wrong in your guild. Officers tend to get tied up in the general bs and grumbling of a guild and forget that whatever they get told is only half the story.

I am going to reply to this, simply becuase the guild Molpadia is refering to joining (and more specifically the officer who confronted him) is me. :))

The guild he is in now "Reborn" has traded members with us for a good 2-3 weeks now, back and forth, having people leave us for them, and leave them for us, the issue Molpadia is having right now, is unlike the rest of the members who have converted, he has a Heart, and a knowledge of right/wrong which is making this decision harder. As far as Reborn's progress, right now they are ranked 3rd as far as overall progression ( but personally i rank them 2nd) the biggest issue ive seen (and heard complaints about) is there unheard of Open Bid DKP system (LOL Open bid?).

Our server is rather new (June release) the first guild was in MC early august, the second guild, was in MC 1 week after them, after 14 days from Hakkar dead. we had Rag dead (only 2 mc clears and 3 ZG clears and rag was dead) Note. we kill Broodlord before we killed Rag, after only 1 MC run. On our first MC run (2 Zg clears before this) we 1 Shot every boss, up to Golemagg (unable to summon domo for obvious reasons) the next week, we bolted in a 1 Shot domo, then 3 shot rag. We killed Razorgore our 4th attempt (after 1 MC clear, got a HUGE thrashing on the boards about "di hacking" lol) we had a minor setback, and didnt kill Vael for another week and a half, but once vael was dead we did Vael - Chromaggus in a single week (not know you could still hide from Nef's landing breathe we called it) 2 weeks later (and now with 35 ony cloaks) we 2 shot nef. with 1 dwarf priest, and only 3 deaths. we farmed BWl/MC for 2 weeks till AQ gates were open. on the first day of AQ (this is maybe 6 MC clears 3 BWL clears) we killed Ossiran(1 shot) Skeram, and Sartura. the next week (this week) we are wiping on Huhu (have the NR for it, just cant get it down yet) Fankriss, we killed with 3 priests. Sartura, with 3 priests, Skeram with 4 priests. We then (after our first Sartura killed) went into Naxx, and got anub rekhan down to about 70%. (note only 3 priests still[man we have an issue with priests ;p])

Having said all this, i think what Molpadia is not looking to jump ship for a more progressed guild, i think he is looking further, and determination, and overall skill of the guild as a whole.

However as stated earlier, when BC is released, most guilds will split, pick there top 35-40 and kick the rest, the need for a 55-60 person raiding guild, is ending, and will cause alot of break downs, and reforms on the server, and guild base. i would not be surprised, if 3 out of 5 guilds, on our server broke down completely, forming 2- 3 seperate guilds all together. the epics you can attain now, will mean nothing (aside from Saphiron/Kt and some select naxx loot) will all be replaced by lvl 68-70 with Greens and quest Blue's.

Personally, it is your choice. Whatever makes you happy, would be best, but then again, sometimes its harder to do what makes you happy, when you feel your choice will hinder soo many others :)

There are 2 ways to take this. Either you're saying a mindset like mine is killing the guild, or you're saying that when the guild members begin to question it, then the guild is already dying. Which did you mean?

Tel - if there's no hope at all and you honestly feel they're going to break your guild, then it's probably time for some drastic action. Make sure that A: It's not personal animosity, and B: it's not avoidable. Then, make sure everyone you want to keep is on your side, and do what Creediki said, set 'em up, take 'em out. I do tend to agree though, they sound like tools, your best option is probably to foment a little insurrection.

Stick it out. The expansion will bring lots of changes, particularly in terms of guild structure. Beyond that, I can't help but comment on the fact that you've been raiding for two months. I stuck with my guild through two reforms and 9-10 months of raiding, despite seeing the signs of collapse nearly 6 months before I left. In fact, they're still chugging along in Naxx (slowly, but hey).

It just seems to me like you're being a bit rash, given that you've been raiding for two months and you've already gotten Nef down. Yes, you'll go through some tough times where you lose "fairweather raiders", because the content after Nef is actually somewhat difficult. But you obviously have a fairly strong guild to have progressed as far as you have in the first place.

The one question you should ask yourself is this: Will you have more fun steamrolling content with a further-progressed guild, or learning and beating new encounters for the first time with your current guild? It's up to you.

You don't have to explain yourself to us. Your guild/realm politics do not belong on these boards.

Sorry.

To be honest, if really the reason you wish to leave is progress and your guild has gone from zg to huhu in such a short time, I can't really justify it. Your guild's progress seems rather fast to me really.

If you want to have a tour of naxx, that's another story and I understand wishing to face naxx encounters before the expansion. The choice you have to make is if you really want to see naxx before the expansion or if you can live without doing so. But from what you say it doesn't seem like your guild is dying and its expansion progress shouldn't be bad either, so it's only a matter of experiencing content you won't get the chance to see otherwise.

But don't take this lightly, changing guilds isn't as easy as you may think. Being established in one guild gives you privileges that no trialist has. And getting used to new people, new tactics, new habits, it's a really big step.

It was a moment of vanity, a fit of doubt and indecision, a shudder in the chilly winds of change.

Thank you for your input on all levels. The myriad of responses have helped me to evaluate what is most important to me.

My reasons for forming this thread have been addressed and then some.

Thank you, and my apologies at having some of the server drama spill over to here.

It was my intent to seek the wisdom of those more experienced, and to find help at resolving an inner conflict.

These needs have been fulfilled.

He's trying to provide some background so other people can help make the decision.. however being in any of the guilds involved, he's not the person that should be providing background.

In my case when:

a) My old guild didn't show much commitment to raid nor progressing. I also wanted to learn new fights, by experiencing new content (i.e. I had read that MC and BWL are static, whereas AQ and Naxx are not, etc). I always wanted to make progress personally, to improve, etc I.e. in sports I used to prefer to be first off the bench in a major league, rather then a star in the minors. Now I am an OT, rather then an MT, but how else am I supposed to aim higher?

b) When politics and hunger for power were more important then the team.

c) When many of the original members left and some of the new ones (and new officers) were nastier people and not having similar values. I kept the friends, left the guild (especially after seeking advise here and seeing how things were getting worse in terms of points a and b).