Or at least I was told it "messes up" with them at Patchwerk and not to use it. Fine with me, especially since Patchwerk's HS's don't crit, but I am still curious about these mechanics; anyone knows the answer please?
Shows a string of dodge/parries while I was spamming shield block. Also, this video kinda disproves the whole if you dodge/parry some hateful strikes at the start you'll drop off the HS list theory, and the HS generates threat on hitting. If anything, it seems that HS generates threat on just swinging at the tank, hit or not. Note that this video is from June, so some of the mechanics may have changed since then.
How hard is it to just check your combat log to find out?
Still working on having a combat log mod that I like (using both combat log and SCL at the moment); haven't looked in the file per say yet. Recap seemed messed up last night at PW, or not reliable. SWstats is apparently allways reset by the raid leader, even if I never said "sync"- basically still toying/learning with mods. Besides what do you suggest I should look for? Less parry/dodge if I use block?
Shield Block does not push off Dodge/Parry/Miss, just crit/crush. Having Shield Block up is strictly better than not having Shield Block up. In the case of HS which can't crit or crush, it just makes some of the hits slightly smaller.
God no. How did you get to 60 as a warrior without noticing that at least once?
The people you are talking to are wildly misinformed.
Lol, such superiority :)
Notice at least once what? That it doesn't diminish parry/dodge? lol
I've been doing my job as a tank, better then most: aggro, mitigation, surviving and I've always used shield block, except last night, the new guild leader told me not to at PW (and since I am new not only to the guild but to Naxx, what was I supposed to say at that precise moment, a few seconds before the pull after a couple of wipes? Didn't seem accurate to me, but I only asked once and did what I was told).
God no. How did you get to 60 as a warrior without noticing that at least once?
Not too hard if your first character is a warrior.
It took me quite some time at 60 and a lot of reading on forums before I understood the game mechanics. I dont think I ever used shield block before 60, simply because "lol, block is 30 less damage, what a crap thing" or "one block per five seconds will make a huge difference, not".
It sounds silly nowadays, but at release I thought Shield Block was the worst spell in the game.
Anyway, Shield Block does definately not prevent dodge and parry.
the new guild leader told me not to at PW (and since I am new not only to the guild but to Naxx, what was I supposed to say at that precise moment, a few seconds before the pull after a couple of wipes? Didn't seem accurate to me, but I only asked once but did what I was told).
I'm certain that your new GM isn't a warrior and has never played one atleast on high level content. IF he has, he totally needs to delete that warrior and decline that he ever rolled one.
I would personally suggest telling him to stick with his class, and let the warriors do their job. It's not that we're telling healers what rank heals to use?!?
As a GM MT - if one of my puppets wouldn't use shieldblock - I would whoop their asses.
Not too hard if your first character is a warrior.
Point taken, I had a War back in beta and kinda took 2 years+ for granted :) However, the OP is tanking Naxx..
:)
So you're jealous or what? Again did you read my answer to you? I've always used shield block and I survive better then most if not all tanks I see even in Naxx (not to mention generating aggro with TF) now, but I've been here just a few days and there is lots of info to digest, adjustments to make (including how not to pull aggro, or to stay just behind the MT at Gluth etc).
the new guild leader told me not to at PW (and since I am new not only to the guild but to Naxx, what was I supposed to say at that precise moment, a few seconds before the pull after a couple of wipes? Didn't seem accurate to me, but I only asked once and did what I was told).
I'm certain that your new GM isn't a warrior and has never played one atleast on high level content. IF he has, he totally needs to delete that warrior and decline that he ever rolled one.
I would personally suggest telling him to stick with his class, and let the warriors do their job. It's not that we're telling healers what rank heals to use?!?
As a GM MT - if one of my puppets wouldn't use shieldblock - I would whoop their asses.
You'd scalp them? :) BTW, I did put a minor post on our warriors forum just now, 'cause the way I see my job, the 3 main things I gotta to do as an OT/MT are:
a) Generating/holding aggro
b) Mitigating
c) Surviving
And I am huge fan of shield block, b/c of b and c :)
Shows a string of dodge/parries while I was spamming shield block. Also, this video kinda disproves the whole if you dodge/parry some hateful strikes at the start you'll drop off the HS list theory, and the HS generates threat on hitting. If anything, it seems that HS generates threat on just swinging at the tank, hit or not. Note that this video is from June, so some of the mechanics may have changed since then.
I do believe HS generates threat regardless, but if you dodge/parry a lot at the start you aren't getting any rage at all, and you need both. A full rage bar from HS translates to a couple thousand points of aggro by the time you burn through it all (more than you get from the HS itself, surely). The rage from getting hit is just as important for maintaining your spot in the order.
BTW, about the "string of dodge/parries while I was spamming shield block" I was wondering if percentages in combat log and mods that use it won't be a more accurate method of measurement? My only problem being that I haven't decided yet between the likes of recap, scl, swstats, damage meter which one to trust, any hints please?
I recall some threads on the Blizz boards during the first few months of release where that theory was brought up along with a few combat logs that seemed to support it. It may have even worked that way back then, or perhaps small sample sizes and unlucky streaks of those doing the testing led to incorrect conclusions.
By the time shield block bugged for a while and warriors could get perma-shield block under certain conditions, it became very clear that the way block was functioning then (and afterwards) does not interfere with parry and dodge. It's currently very easy to verify yourself with the current combat log tools available.
The time of confusion about blocking was quite a while ago. If your GM hasn't paid attention to the warrior class since the bugged shield block period (what, over a year ago now?) they probably shouldn't be telling warriors how to play their toons now.
Shows a string of dodge/parries while I was spamming shield block. Also, this video kinda disproves the whole if you dodge/parry some hateful strikes at the start you'll drop off the HS list theory, and the HS generates threat on hitting. If anything, it seems that HS generates threat on just swinging at the tank, hit or not. Note that this video is from June, so some of the mechanics may have changed since then.
I do believe HS generates threat regardless, but if you dodge/parry a lot at the start you aren't getting any rage at all, and you need both. A full rage bar from HS translates to a couple thousand points of aggro by the time you burn through it all (more than you get from the HS itself, surely). The rage from getting hit is just as important for maintaining your spot in the order.
On pretty much all of our first kills, we didn't have a solid understanding of HS, so we thought it was first 3 targets he sees (other than the MT) and then whoever has the highest life among them. We had the offtanks not fighting for aggro in fear of them overtaking the MT and getting autoattacked right after getting hit by a HS. That video is the beginning of our first kill (or on the night of), and I don't really do much other than demo/shield block (maybe a few sunders, can't watch it here).
As for the what I linked, it just shows that its possible to dodge/parry while shield block is up (which is what I assumed your initial question was). I can't really imagine shield block reducing your chance to dodge/parry, you could test it by going an extended period of time without using shield block at all, and then repeat that with using shield block every time it's up and compare the results. Not too sure what mod parses incoming hits, but I'd be very surprised if one of the big ones (combatstats, SW_Stats) doesn't do it.
BTW, about the "string of dodge/parries while I was spamming shield block" I was wondering if percentages in combat log and mods that use it won't be a more accurate method of measurement? My only problem being that I haven't decided yet between the likes of recap, scl, swstats, damage meter which one to trust, any hints please?
Could always do it "manually" and tab out to your WOW folder after a wierd wipe and read the combatlog you initiated at the start of the night (/combatlog).
Ive always found going over fights after the raid night is over with an external program is more to my taste. One great downloadable external parser is www dot brockjones dot com but it doesnt seem that the page is up atm.
The only time you shouldn't use shield block on Patchwerk is the very start if you are the second or third OT, just in case you only get 1 HS for a while, you don't want to be removed from the primer (aka you want every bit of rage for HS you can muster).
As far as the shield block argument goes, it's extremely easy to test. Get 25% Block, use shield block, parry or dodge, and realize that you lose nothing by using shield block.
Or actually read combat logs instead of doing something stupid like looking at recap data to see if your parry magically dissapears. Look for something like "you gain shield block -> you dodge -> pw hits you for xx (x blocked) -> your shield block fades from you". If you can't get that immediately from your combat log I'd suggest changing your filters/getting a different mod, as being able to instantly find relevant information is crucial as a MT.
Or actually read combat logs instead of doing something stupid like looking at recap data to see if your parry magically dissapears. Look for something like "you gain shield block -> you dodge -> pw hits you for xx (x blocked) -> your shield block fades from you". If you can't get that immediately from your combat log I'd suggest changing your filters/getting a different mod, as being able to instantly find relevant information is crucial as a MT.
I think he was referring to the chances of parrying and dodging diminishing if you have shield block up, not if you can parry/dodge at all. Seems kinda far fetched for shield block to affect that though.
Well the question was whether it prevents dodging/parrying so I assumed he meant stopping them all together while shield block was up. Anyway, the question has been answered either way.
Well the question was whether it prevents dodging/parrying so I assumed he meant stopping them all together while shield block was up. Anyway, the question has been answered either way.
No, I was told "it messes with parry/dodge" sorry about the title of the question and thanks for the answers!
10/19/06, 9:41 AM
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