So I was going through Thottbot's beta-site yesterday and happened upon the blacksmithing page with its new recipies. As I play a sword-spec rogue, these two items looked quite nice:
As I already had mining 300/300 as a primary profession, I dropped good old (dis)enchanting and started power-levelling Blacksmithing to spec Swordsmith, and called it a night after finishing the Weaponsmithing quest.
I then sat down and started going through the materials for these things and have a couple of questions that I hope somebody will be able to answer for me.
The materials for the [Felsteel Longblade] are 10x [Felsteel Bar], 8x [Primal Might], 2x [Primal Nether]. To make these, you need:
* 10 [Felsteel Bar] = 50 [Fel Iron Bar] and 20 [Eternium Bar] = 100 [Fel Iron Ore] and 40 [Eternium Ore]
Nothing strange so far, I suppose that these are just standard ores that can be found in Outlands, probably their equivalent to Mithril/Thorium.
* 8 [Primal Might] = 8 [Primal Earth], 8 [Primal Water], 8 [Primal Air], 8 [Primal Fire], 8 [Primal Mana]
These can all be created (transformed from one of the other) with Alchemy, and the [Primal Might] is made by an alchemist that has one of each of the Primal Elements ... But I can't figure out how to get them. I suppose they're like the various Essence of Water/Air/Fire/Earth-drops we're accustomed to, rather low-frequency drops from some specific mobs in Outlands.
* 2 [Primal Nether] = ???
I've figured out that the other "Primal" materials, like [Primal Mana], are created by combining ten [Mote of Mana], which are a relatively high-frequency drop from various mobs around Outlands. Some of them (like the [Mote of Mana]) can be pulled out of gas clouds. However, I've found nothing on where the [Primal Nether] is from. Are there items called "Mote of Nether" that you can farm and combine to get a [Primal Nether]?
Mobs drop "Mote of X" at the moment as you'd expect: Earth Elementals drop Mote of Earth, Boglords in Zangermarsh drop Mote of Life, Voidwalkers and Demons drop Mote of Shadow/Fire, etc.
10 of each Mote gives you a Primal X by just rightclicking them, and you usually get 2-3 Motes per drop so it goes reasonably fast.
Noone knows for sure about Primal Nether yet, as it's from the Netherstorm area. I suspect you will need a specific engineering item for it as I recall reading about a headpiece of sorts that allowed you to see "Netherveins" (by lack of a better word) that could then be mined.
I am curious about the switching of specialization. Currently I am Armorsmith 300/300 and would like to switch over to Hammersmith when expansion arrives. I know Blizzard mentioned they would give us the opportunity to switch specialization, but not how and at what cost.
personally I plan on sticking with armorsmithing. I figure there are more likely to be irreplaceable BoP armor pieces than there are to be irreplaceable BoP weapons (Lionheart Helm lolz)
I am curious about the switching of specialization. Currently I am Armorsmith 300/300 and would like to switch over to Hammersmith when expansion arrives. I know Blizzard mentioned they would give us the opportunity to switch specialization, but not how and at what cost.
Any details known, yet?
Specialization switching is not yet implemented and I'd say it has a 33% chance of never being implemented based on Blizzard's track record of other features.
Mobs drop "Mote of X" at the moment as you'd expect: Earth Elementals drop Mote of Earth, Boglords in Zangermarsh drop Mote of Life, Voidwalkers and Demons drop Mote of Shadow/Fire, etc.
10 of each Mote gives you a Primal X by just rightclicking them, and you usually get 2-3 Motes per drop so it goes reasonably fast.
Noone knows for sure about Primal Nether yet, as it's from the Netherstorm area. I suspect you will need a specific engineering item for it as I recall reading about a headpiece of sorts that allowed you to see "Netherveins" (by lack of a better word) that could then be mined.
Ultra-Spectropic Detection Goggles
Binds when equipped
Head Cloth
112 Armor
+48 Stamina
+47 Spirit
Durability 50 / 50
Requires Engineering (350)
Equip: Allows detection of objects that are slightly out of phase such as the arcane vortexes of netherstorm.
Use: Allows you to look far into the distance.
Created with Engineering:
4x Heavy Knothide Leather
2x Khorium Bar
2x Deep Peridot
2x Small Prismatic Shard
I'm sure someone has created this by now, so if Primal Nether were in I think we'd know about it by now.
I was under the impression that there is a quest in tanaris in game now that allows you to switch specializations for blacksmithing/engineering/leatherworking.
I'm sure someone has created this by now, so if Primal Nether were in I think we'd know about it by now.
Except Netherstorm isn't open at the moment, so we can't exactly find out whether the goggles work.
That rests on the assumption that Primal Nether is only available from the Netherstorm, which may or may not be true.
The Netherstorm was open for a bit, by the way, even in the beta. I have no doubt people from the alpha on Hellfire could have gotten there with goggles, though obviously I don't know that anyone did it specifically.
What's more problematic to me is that Primal Nether is BoP.
I'm sure someone has created this by now, so if Primal Nether were in I think we'd know about it by now.
Except Netherstorm isn't open at the moment, so we can't exactly find out whether the goggles work.
That rests on the assumption that Primal Nether is only available from the Netherstorm, which may or may not be true.
The Netherstorm was open for a bit, by the way, even in the beta. I have no doubt people from the alpha on Hellfire could have gotten there with goggles, though obviously I don't know that anyone did it specifically.
What's more problematic to me is that Primal Nether is BoP.
If we're lucky, the Motes of Nether won't be. The other Primals were BOP for a while in Alpha also.
I really haven't been looking into Tailoring, and need to look a bit closer at Herb/Alch(eing an herb/alchie), but it looks like balcksmithing will finally have a purpose!
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Interesting to note that currently the DPS on those weapons is as good as the gladiator weapon rewards. Certainly seems as though blacksmithing is getting a major boost here.
Also note that model-wise there's a 3rd version of all those weapons - which means they'll prolly get another bump up somewhere in karazad/raiding (guessing on location), likely through either dropped form/quest/super-special trainer/combination.
Another thing to note is (assuming drop rates in beta mirror live) BoE epic crafted item forms are much more common than they are now - hopefully no more of having one guy on the whole server who can make lionheart for 6 months - and they're the other faction. Although all the dropped forms I've seen have skill req of 365, there could be even rarer 375 forms that more closly mirror todays uber-rares.
I really wish they'd widen the crafting options and give weaponsmiths shields or some way to permanently upgrade pre-existing weapons (perhapse to be able to add sockets to weapon?, something like enchanting, but that doesn't eat the enchanting slot)- making items for at most 2 slots versus armorsmiths eight (potential) really kills the specialization - even before you divvy it up furthur between sword/axe/hammer, and we're already seeing this through dropped forms - as a tank I'd definitly go for gauntlets of the iron tower, helm of the stalwart defender and bracers of the green fortress for sure, prolly stronghold 2.0's as well, for weapons I'd take the swordsmithing 1h'er... maybe?
I also think it would be better if the BoP armorsmithing item was a hat or shoulders, just for recognition, you'll know a smith when they come swinging a lionheart blade at you, but you'd have to have a real sharp eye to spot a bulwark of kings, especially on the smaller races.
Well, the problem with breasplate/bulwark of kings is that the stats are unfocused. The stamina is lower than Wrath, and white it does have 50 STR for good AP, it also wastes itemization budget on +defense. Durotan's Battle Harness is an equivalent or better chest for dps, and it's only a level 66 blue. And for tanking you'd probably do better with Vindicator's Hauberk.
Imho the Armorsmithing chest is a lot worse than what all the other specializations have.
It has 200 more armor than Conq chest, a bit more def than wrath - but less HP.
Yea Sure 3 sockets.. but c'mon.. unless there will be some uber jewel of uberness that chest is a piece of shit compared to the other craftables.
After everybody got their DI set - armorsmith has been nothing but pain unless you got the servers first lionheart/titanic legs recepies, but other than that there's really no benefit from being it.
Sure, everybody knows that there will be a lot more AS recepies than just the bulwark of crappiness, but if the level of em is going to be what the bulwark is, i cannot see any reasons to stay AS rather than going for any other BS specialization.
I really hope that Blizz gives us AS recepies that can be used to make money - AND a lot better armors what makes ppl go "AMAGAADD.. that guy one f*cking 1337 Armorsmith".
Right now there's a huge problem with smithing. For starters is the amount of fel iron ore you need. Just from 301-325 I have gone though about 125 of these bars. That wouldn't be so bad if for some reason each bar didn't take 2 fel iron ore to make. Even once you're done with fel iron, you go through a few skill points of adamantite, but then you must start using fel steel bars, which take 5 fel iron bars to smelt. That's ten ore per pop.
Still doesn't sound bad to you? Every profession has their own type of resource. With the exception of the rare recipe that uses some other kind of material, Alchemy is the only one to use herbs, Leatherworking is the only one to use leather, and Tailoring is the only one to use cloth (except First Aid but cloth is so common it doesn't matter anyway). Ore on the other hand is used by THREE professions, one of which is destroying the stuff by the stack for chances to get gems. Every other profession gets its own type of material, ore has to be split three ways.
Still not bad enough for you? Ore is probably the rarest resource. Cloth and Leather are limited only by how many mobs you can kill in a given amount of time. Herbs, while rare in some types, are very diverse and alchemy offers many different options to skill up. Then we have ore, which dots the map sparsely, and is required in massive amounts. To make matters worse a blacksmith can't say "oh, I will skill up using Ore X instead of Ore Y since I'm out of that." Ore X is required for 50 skill levels, and Ore Y doesn't exist.
Basically something has to be done, whether its the addition of more types of ore, changing bars to require only 1 ore (as it always has been), or changing gemcrafting so that it does not need to destroy massive amounts of this already rare resource.
I agree completely... as I said in another thread, there is going to be some very serious grief about fel iron in the first few weeks / months after release. Fel iron, let alone felsteel, is going to be ludicrously expensive.
Don't forget that every single enchanter is going to want a new Fel Iron Rod, as well - 6 more fel iron bars per enchanter subtracted from the available pool.
Right now there's a huge problem with smithing. For starters is the amount of fel iron ore you need. Just from 301-325 I have gone though about 125 of these bars. That wouldn't be so bad if for some reason each bar didn't take 2 fel iron ore to make. Even once you're done with fel iron, you go through a few skill points of adamantite, but then you must start using fel steel bars, which take 5 fel iron bars to smelt. That's ten ore per pop.
Still doesn't sound bad to you? Every profession has their own type of resource. With the exception of the rare recipe that uses some other kind of material, Alchemy is the only one to use herbs, Leatherworking is the only one to use leather, and Tailoring is the only one to use cloth (except First Aid but cloth is so common it doesn't matter anyway). Ore on the other hand is used by THREE professions, one of which is destroying the stuff by the stack for chances to get gems. Every other profession gets its own type of material, ore has to be split three ways.
Still not bad enough for you? Ore is probably the rarest resource. Cloth and Leather are limited only by how many mobs you can kill in a given amount of time. Herbs, while rare in some types, are very diverse and alchemy offers many different options to skill up. Then we have ore, which dots the map sparsely, and is required in massive amounts. To make matters worse a blacksmith can't say "oh, I will skill up using Ore X instead of Ore Y since I'm out of that." Ore X is required for 50 skill levels, and Ore Y doesn't exist.
Basically something has to be done, whether its the addition of more types of ore, changing bars to require only 1 ore (as it always has been), or changing gemcrafting so that it does not need to destroy massive amounts of this already rare resource.
So what you're trying to say is, ore = $$$? :)
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Still not bad enough for you? Ore is probably the rarest resource. Cloth and Leather are limited only by how many mobs you can kill in a given amount of time.
You get 2-4 ore (1-2 bars) per node. I get 1/5 or 1/25 of one piece of leather (depending on whether I need Knothide or Heavy Knothide) per kill, and need 10-20 full leather per piece of equipment, plus the same amount of extra stuff that other professions need.
Well, skinning might be an issue during the initial crunch of course but let's not pretend you can't simply kill more beasts and skin more of them. Sure, if it is kill 50-500 and skin them to make a single item, that is annoying as can be but it is absolutely possible. If I need x amount of an ore, only an absolutely insane amount of cycles through the available nodes will get me that if there are enough other people cycling/camping the same nodes. Plus while praying for mining nodes one doesn't get any other loot typically, nor cooking mats or other useful motes and such.
Unless of course they get a little brighter and stick some in instances... Oh, then again, we all know how well that has turned out in the past haha!
I'm absolutely not saying that skinners and other gathering professions have a cakewalk. I would say though that mining and to some degree herbalism are pretty rough if the competition is steep.
Still not bad enough for you? Ore is probably the rarest resource. Cloth and Leather are limited only by how many mobs you can kill in a given amount of time.
You get 2-4 ore (1-2 bars) per node. I get 1/5 or 1/25 of one piece of leather (depending on whether I need Knothide or Heavy Knothide) per kill, and need 10-20 full leather per piece of equipment, plus the same amount of extra stuff that other professions need.
Stop the whining.
At lvl 67ish I believe mobs become garanteed normal leather (no more scraps), while I agree the scraps system is a little ludicrous atm (should stop by 62-3, or at least change the ratio to 3:1), it's still better than ore - you kill, you get leather, you can level up lw'ing while leveling normally relativly painlessly - and on the occasion someone else is kiling your mobs, there's decent odds they don't skin (since skinning/lw suck for what they make, irrespective of collection concerns), boom, tradegoods without the effort.
Smithing however is a completly time-limited resource (nodes only repop so fast, and there's much more limited spawns), and even if you did lock down one spawn you're going to get piddly income as you sit staring at that node (plus you aren't getting as much grind-time since you know it'll repop and get ninja'd while you're fighting a mob). What makes it even worse is that it's going to be utterly dominated by farmers - you can mine fairly effectivly all the way through nagrand (highest zone in beta, lvl 66-8ish) with a lvl 60 rogue prep-specc'd on an epic mount (I know, because that's how I got most of my ore to lvl with), which means resources are going to be picked clean fast. Even before jewelcrafting (which smithing doesn't use in the expansion at all as far as I can tell) and engineering competition is thrown in you're facing a resource that sucks, and will suck millions of times more on crowded live servers, while skinning it's pretty hard to get locked out of farming.
The funny thing is they almost added a workaround with the mineable mobs (of which there is only one type in any of the outdoor zones atm, alas), except said mobs don't drop ore (and are elite), while the herbalism equivalents drop usefull herbs (and also happen to be a mob-type that is used for factioning, so yet another reasib to butcher them). I think their intention for the 2:1 ore: bar ratio was so that individual veins could be thicker (which also means more chances at rare-drops), but the other mechanics of mining are in no way addressed - and when the higher metals take ludicrous mats (1 hardened adamantite = 10x adamantite, felsteel= 5x fel iron +2x eternium), smithing becomes somewhat absurd.
On the topic of armorsmithing: yea, you're right kings bulwark needs a buff, I was more addressing that having it should be visually apparent the way the weapons are. As far as weapon vs. armorsmithing, while weapon may have a slight edge for BoP forms, armorsmithing is rediculously better in the field of BoE stuff.
At lvl 67ish I believe mobs become garanteed normal leather (no more scraps)
Incorrect. I've killed level 71 mobs that still skinned scraps more than half the time - and when they did, they dropped normal knothide, not even heavy knothide.
Imagine if, as a Blacksmith, you had to make EVERYTHING out of Dark Iron. That's what it's like trying to make Heavy Knothide items.
Hooray for the chinese farmers / botters ..... :/
I bet that in few weeks we see bots running and stealing all the stuff.
That's just a problem with MMOs to begin with, you'll always have farmers, botters, gold sellers, having a 5,000g mount to buy @ 70 certainly hasn't helped deter that problem either.
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10/26/06, 10:50 AM
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