Q on Fury Warriors and Aggro

u418936 · 10/27/06, 2:23 PM

I'm a former 31/20 pvp warrior. My new spec is 17/34/0, and I'm new to pve dps. I'm using an UTB, and I have some pvp/BWL dps epics. My stats are 1k AP unbuffed, 25% crit in battle stance, 6% to hit, and I'm human, so I have +5 to swords. Nothing spectacular.

Lately, I've been trying out for Naxx guilds as a dps warrior, and I seem to pull aggro a lot. I never use HS, and I always assist well after the other dps classes start attacking. I use an UTB, so my damage is pretty "bursty", but I highly doubt I could sustain 600 dps for more than a minute or two. Raid-buffed, I'd guess that my average dps is around 350-450 on most single-target fights. I've heard that some warriors can sustain 600-800 dps for a long time, so I'm wondering why I'm pulling aggro and they're not.

Antiarc · 10/27/06, 2:32 PM

[Fetish of the Sand Reaver] is your most likely answer.

Option B is "your tanks suck at threat".

Edit: Fury with UTB (and possibly a crusader enchant) will result in extremely bursty damage, so it's possible that you're just popping over the tank's threat with crit strings. You could try getting your tank to install KTM, do the same yourself, and see where you tend to hang out.

Lumi · 10/27/06, 2:35 PM

Even without Reaver, you could sustain 500 dps and not grab aggro on most fights. Now there are other factors. Which boss are you having problems with in particular? Do you have Blessing of Salvation on all the time? Do higher dps members of the raid have similar problems?

Thezilch · 10/27/06, 2:52 PM

Unless it's Noth, the tanks have issues. Even Noth, the blink CD is known, and the tank simply saves rage / shield slam for the shield slam / HS / sunder spam.

Use KTM and beware of aggro dumps (Noth, Gluth start).

u418936 · 10/27/06, 3:00 PM

Thus far, I've seen 5 bosses taken down, and I rarely live through any of the fights. I always have salvation on, so that's not an issue. I closely watch the dps meter during fights--I think of it as a poor-man's KTM. What usually happens is that I start near the bottom because I wait longer than the other dps classes for assist, but I catch up very quickly. I move from 10th to 5th in a matter of seconds. Usually, before I pull aggro and die, I'm in the top five.

I've taken to demo-shouting and thunderclapping so I can move down the threat list while still helping the raid. That's probably the best thing to do. To me, it's strange that a DW fury-warrior can use HS regularly, do 500 sustained dps, yet not pull aggro. Does the tank's skill make that big of a difference?

Apparation · 10/27/06, 3:04 PM

honestly my first reaction is just the tank sucks at holding threat and maybe their raid is used to it where you aren't. But without first hand experience, theres no way any of us could tell you for sure.

But ya, try and get the tank and yourself (and your entire guild while your at it) to get KTM. Wonderful, wonderful utility.

Fres · 10/27/06, 3:10 PM

Coming from another DPS class with aggro problems, tank skill (and loadout) makes a HUGE difference.

Little things to consider:
-Subtlety on your cloak
-Threat on tanks gloves
-Tank have Defiance?
-Tank have Shield Slam? (a lot of snap aggro means you can start dps earlier)
-what abilities/order does tank use? (does he just mash sunder)

Ren · 10/27/06, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by u418936

Does the tank's skill make that big of a difference?

The tank's skill, gear, and talents make a huge difference regarding how much DPS you can deal. I know multiple tanks who can hold aggro on a trash mob against 1000 dps HS spam.

u418936 · 10/27/06, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ren

Originally Posted by u418936

Does the tank's skill make that big of a difference?

The tank's skill, gear, and talents make a huge difference regarding how much DPS you can deal. I know multiple tanks who can hold aggro on a trash mob against 1000 dps HS spam.

holy shit

Quigon · 10/27/06, 4:52 PM

On thaddius whether or not you outaggro the fury warrior depends a lot on luck, even with optimal rage useage and timing. The scales are tipped in your favor, but they always have potential to outburst you. Other fights the tank should be ok - trash is obviously sketchy at best, and 4H - but I doubt you're bringing 9-10 warrior there.

However, before saying KT's sword shouldn't go to the MT, or this or that about gearing up the MT, keep in mind your damage (at least thus far with horde) is often aggro capped, not gear capped. So giving him aggro increasing items is going to help your overall dps significantly.

Fellwraith · 10/27/06, 5:07 PM

Well, I'd say the general rule of thumb is "3 sunders, then go in" for me on my rogue or back when I was DW fury on my warrior. If you aren't waiting that long, a burst of dps could push you over the 10% threat threshold, which gives you aggro.

I'd (diplomatically) ask the tank what his rotation is for holding aggro.

Does he use revenge a lot and proactively use shieldblock to set it up? It's pretty easy to set up a /cast revenge /cast sunder macro to use for your universal cooldown button.

Is he dumping excess rage on HS and Shield Slams or is he sitting at 100 rage trying to use sunder to dump it all?

Most importantly, does he have defiance?

If he has defiance, revenge is almost always on cooldown, and his ragebar is never full, it should be damn near impossible to pull aggro in a traditional tank n spank.

Fres · 10/27/06, 5:10 PM

Don't bite my head off, but wouldn't it makes sense for the fury warrior/warlock group to have tranquil air at the expense of windfury? I mean, if alliance fury warriors are doing the damage without windfury and with a threat reducer, couldnt you do that for horde warriors (and the poor horde warlocks)

Mezzlock · 10/27/06, 5:13 PM

As the other say, seems like you got a tank problem, I can without problem (when im not the one tanking myself) go all out without using HS, without pulling aggro, maybe not on stupid thrash where the tank don't get aggro, but on normal bosses, in fights like anub'rekhan, faerlina, it should be very very hard to pull aggro from the tank due to the downtime on boss dps on anub, and the head start he gets on faerlina when killing the two first adds. But also, if you pull aggro on maexxna with salvation on there is something seriously wrong with your tank.

edit; horde with windfury, no tranquil air totem.

Creediki · 10/27/06, 5:16 PM

SoE + WF = BoK + BoM for damage generation. Actually.. some of the PW meters showed BoK/BoM ahead...

Windfury OR TA is the shaman choice.

Basically.. if you're horde you lower your dps AND lower your aggro. Alliance doesn't have to make that choice.

Plus, you can make that choice on an individual basis. When the Shaman drops TA instead of WF.. not just the warrior, but the rouges in the group loose it as well. Put the warriors in 1 grop and now your rouges don't have battle shout.

It's unfortunate Blizzard came up with such a lopsided mechanic that has sullied the reputations of Alliance high-end guilds.

• Chicken · 10/27/06, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Nezralix

Originally Posted by Ren

Originally Posted by u418936

Does the tank's skill make that big of a difference?

The tank's skill, gear, and talents make a huge difference regarding how much DPS you can deal. I know multiple tanks who can hold aggro on a trash mob against 1000 dps HS spam.

Or for Horde, 700 dps :P

770 DPS actually :p

BoS allows you to deal 30% more damage, so not having it means you'll pull aggro at 23% of the DPS that someone with it would.