Declaring a New Main

Maligne · 10/31/06, 8:52 AM

I searched but the only thread I could find concerning this was in relation to the expansion. I want to get an idea of how guilds handle this currently.

The way I see it is you can't make someone play a character they don't want to. You can refuse to bring them on raids but they'll most likely just join another guild with their new main. What I'm interested in are some interesting ways of "discouraging" the switch. We currently allow it but we're thinking there may need to be some consequences involved. Maybe a trial period with no loot or a DKP penalty.

Do the GM's out there allow it, and if so, what are the repercussions? I guess I may be way off base here in relation to post-BWL guilds, but I'm thinking there will always be people who get tired of their class.

Kiz · 10/31/06, 8:57 AM

A member of our guild paid 300 DKP and was ineligible for loot for a short period of time when they decided to change their main.

sp00n · 10/31/06, 9:00 AM

If we are in need of a certain class, and one member has a well equipped alt for that class, and if the current class of his main is not underrepresented, we allow switching over classes without restrictions.
At least that was the case, now with Nax we have stopped doing so, since the instance is quite depending on the equipment, and alts with T2 are not that regular.
We maybe had around 5 people change their mains so far, and 1 who left the guild because he wanted to play his alt but wasn't allowed to do in our guild.
We had one case where we allowed a change, but only by removing of all earned DKP and the status of a completely new member.
But that was our former maintank who had to step back due to family and switched over to his warlock just for the fun of it.

Maels · 10/31/06, 9:02 AM

DKP hit and you can only switch classes once.

Romp · 10/31/06, 9:08 AM

we penalise people the amount of dkp they spent on the character they switched from, up to a certain amount. So the more gear they 'wasted' by switching their main the harsher the penalty.

Vhal · 10/31/06, 9:12 AM

We store points per character and flag characters as mains within the loot system.

Alts do not get confirmed for raids unless the class is necessary, and main non-minimum bids for loot automatically win over any bid from an alt. Loot points are stored per-character, not per-player (but our loot system encourages fairly fast turnover in points, realistically, our current top point holder has the points one would accumulate from just over two months of 100% attendance raiding). Players may switch mains, but must wait two months between switching mains again.

We've had one player switch mains more than once, and he has really variable playing time (i.e., he played a warrior with the intent to tank when he could play heavily, and once his playtime got shot down due to procreation, he switched to a shaman that could contribute without having to be at the top of the loot acquisition list) and a handful of other main switches, mostly people switching out of overpopulated classes.

In my opinion, the most important thing is to have a solidified alt policy and enforce it. From our experience, the problems occur when players try to raid with two characters, less so when they switch from one main to another.

Maligne · 10/31/06, 9:22 AM

Originally Posted by Vhal

We store points per character and flag characters as mains within the loot system.

Alts do not get confirmed for raids unless the class is necessary, and main non-minimum bids for loot automatically win over any bid from an alt. Loot points are stored per-character, not per-player (but our loot system encourages fairly fast turnover in points, realistically, our current top point holder has the points one would accumulate from just over two months of 100% attendance raiding). Players may switch mains, but must wait two months between switching mains again.

We've had one player switch mains more than once, and he has really variable playing time (i.e., he played a warrior with the intent to tank when he could play heavily, and once his playtime got shot down due to procreation, he switched to a shaman that could contribute without having to be at the top of the loot acquisition list) and a handful of other main switches, mostly people switching out of overpopulated classes.

In my opinion, the most important thing is to have a solidified alt policy and enforce it. From our experience, the problems occur when players try to raid with two characters, less so when they switch from one main to another.

We've thought about storing points per character versus per player, but it seems like that would just encourage players to raid with two or more characters. In your system the mains always having priority would seem to help with that problem, but at the same time pushes the alts way back in line (which I guess is how it should be). I do like the 2 month lockout between switches (though I can't say we've had anyone that's wanted to switch more than once...yet).

Artaxz · 10/31/06, 9:26 AM

If it is a necessary class, minimal penalty.
If it is not necessary for your raid/progression, dkp wipe.

Kalman · 10/31/06, 9:33 AM

You lose all DKP, needed switch or not. If you were negative, however, you retain your negative status. You can only switch if we need the class you want to switch to, OR if your current class is overpopulated. No loot lockout on the new main other than that provided by your DKP being wiped.

Kobal · 10/31/06, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

You lose all DKP, needed switch or not. If you were negative, however, you retain your negative status.

Wouldn't this encourage people to spend their points before switching/declaring their switch, which is exactly not what you want?

Sri · 10/31/06, 9:51 AM

Not sure wiping the points clean would solve anything tho - as Kobal said, would encourage, rather place a price on switching that's really not at all harming them compared to what it affects the raid group in whole.

Penalizing a person with either a DKP hit (take away the amount of point spent on items again, so as to have a double hit on their points) and / or disallow looting of items for a short period of time via points (items defaulted would still be given).

Given the xpac and a new class for each faction, if someone wants to be a shaman (Alliance) or paladin (Horde) the above ruling shouldn't be there depending on who is switching (a healer now to one of these classes) - my $0.02.

Kalman · 10/31/06, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kobal

Originally Posted by Kalman

You lose all DKP, needed switch or not. If you were negative, however, you retain your negative status.

Wouldn't this encourage people to spend their points before switching/declaring their switch, which is exactly not what you want?

You aren't *entitled* to a switch. Do something that stupid and you definitely wouldn't be getting one.

edit: Since I think the only logical thing to do with DKP in the xpac is to zero it, obviously this is all in the context of the current game, or the future game; switches during the leveling phase are easy enough to do, as long as not everyone is trying to switch.

• Fogbug · 10/31/06, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kobal

Originally Posted by Kalman

You lose all DKP, needed switch or not. If you were negative, however, you retain your negative status.

Wouldn't this encourage people to spend their points before switching/declaring their switch, which is exactly not what you want?

gaming the system in order to essentially gear up your alt isn't going to make you very popular with the rest of your guild, especially if you're trying to switch to a less needed class

• Maestroquark · 10/31/06, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kobal

Originally Posted by Kalman

You lose all DKP, needed switch or not. If you were negative, however, you retain your negative status.

Wouldn't this encourage people to spend their points before switching/declaring their switch, which is exactly not what you want?

When a character is positive (in a zero-sum system), that's supposed to mean they've given the guild more than they've recieved in turn. Penalizing negative is good, because that character is leaving before they paid their debts. But penalizing positive, while possibly good for overall guild progress, seems more like a middle-finger send off. Edit: of course, this is assuming the player doesn't have enough points to buy 3 items in a single raid and then switch over the next day.

Our raid system is quite abnormal to begin with, having a much larger group of people than most guilds. We have DKP by character, and there's no inherent penalty in the points system towards playing another character. However, it's essentially a priority system for invites for progression raids based on how experienced and geared a character is. Switching chars will essentially set you back that you have to work your way back up.

Maligne · 10/31/06, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Fogbug

Originally Posted by Kobal

Originally Posted by Kalman

You lose all DKP, needed switch or not. If you were negative, however, you retain your negative status.

Wouldn't this encourage people to spend their points before switching/declaring their switch, which is exactly not what you want?

gaming the system in order to essentially gear up your alt isn't going to make you very popular with the rest of your guild, especially if you're trying to switch to a less needed class

This is kinda the problem you run into. It's pretty hard to make a case that someone is "gaming the system" when they switch. How do you differentiate between someone with 8/8 who genuinely hates his class and someone with 8/8 who is just trying to gear up multiple characters?