ICC Crimson Halls - Blood Queen Lana'thel (Normal) - Page 2

suicuique · 01/22/10, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Do you have any tips? Do you have a fixed bite order for every player?

I highly recommand going for the fixed order, at least for the higher order bites (- 8 - 16).

kalbear · 01/22/10, 11:10 AM

The fixed new time is 75 seconds on 10 man, and 60 seconds on 25 man. This means that you will not get a MC phase at all provided that you are taking a finite amount of time to bite people.

The corrolary to this is that the bite timing now coincides with the fears at the start of P2, meaning that you should either have your first vampire wait as long as possible to bite or they should bite almost instantaneously. The former is probably more manageable.

Rhaegal · 01/22/10, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Lileith

I was bitten first on our yesterday attempt/kill in 10 man as an arcane mage with 40% threat reduction + vigilance. I was 5th on the agro table but first on damage done when I got bitten. Maybe it's based on the raw threat generated before any threat reducting talents or abilities?

If this is true, it makes me wonder if Mirror Images would work. Having a mage pop MI and all of his or her cooldowns (and maybe a PI for good measure) at the very beginning to ensure being way ahead of everyone else should guarantee that the mage gets the first bite if it's based on pre-reduced threat. This would also be a very easy way to test the theory.

Unfortunately we won't be back in until Sunday, so that's the earliest I'll be able to test it out with our mage.

Greysir · 01/22/10, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

If this is true, it makes me wonder if Mirror Images would work. Having a mage pop MI and all of his or her cooldowns (and maybe a PI for good measure) at the very beginning to ensure being way ahead of everyone else should guarantee that the mage gets the first bite if it's based on pre-reduced threat. This would also be a very easy way to test the theory.

Unfortunately we won't be back in until Sunday, so that's the earliest I'll be able to test it out with our mage.

We only used a few of our pulls last night , but all 3 times we had an arcane mage that did exactly that. He was bitten first each time. I did not notice his reported threat at the time. He was definitely highest on damage done at that point (although that theory seems to be out the window), but if threat modifiers are ignored then it definitely adds weight to that theory.

• Andeh · 01/22/10, 3:44 PM

We did 3 attempts in 10 man last night (while waiting for a GM to spawn the 25m version). The first first 2 times, she bit a Hunter first. The last time, we had all the DPS (except myself) hold off for 5s to try and get me bitten, and she bit a Resto Druid instead (who had pre-HOT'ed both tanks, and was the only one healing).

We did I think 5 attempts in 25 man before running out of time. I believe in 3 attempts she bit our better geared Hunter, once she bit the other Hunter, and once she bit a Mage.

It does appear that the "highest pre-reduction threat" theory could apply.

Cobs · 01/22/10, 3:50 PM

From what I've read so far in this thread im leaning towards a 'first on aggro table' theory as the first bitten. Here's my reasoning:

- Most accounts have it at mages and hunters being bitten first. Seeing as ranged get in before melee this would support the theory.
- Hunters are the most commonly reported in the thread (albeit anecdotal and small sample size). As most DPS give the tanks a couple seconds of threat gen before opening up while hunters will use MD as soon as or even before the MT hits the boss this would also support the theory.
- Non ranged people getting bitten reported in this thread have been a war (who mentioned he had an early charge) and rogue (who mentioned tricksing and DPSing early).
- Healers have also reported getting first bites, mostly druids. As I assume druids have the tank pre hotted, a hot tick right after engage would put them as the first person on the aggro list.

If this is all true then the best way to make sure you have a high dps get the first bite would be have a rogue or hunter MD/tricks as the first hit and avoid prehotting if possible.

ciopo · 01/22/10, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cobs

- Non ranged people getting bitten reported in this thread have been a war (who mentioned he had an early charge) and rogue (who mentioned tricksing and DPSing early).

4 attempts out of 7 on 25man the picked target was me, with a misdirection assist from one of our hunter, and i was definetively not the top on damage done in the first 15-20 seconds, was just making sure i was the second on threat.

I was also "frontloading" damaging, going berserk -> shred to 5 cp then ferocious bite, which is suboptimal for DPS but strong on burst TPS

The two other attempts we reliabily laid the first bite to who we choosed to through misdirection assists.

One on a shadow priest, one on a mage.

On 10man, fresh from early this evening, out of four attempts, the very first time at which we "let it be whoever she want to" she bited our Resto druid, On every other attempt the choosen target was the shadow priest, with misdirection assist to him.

We did not attempt an "everybody hold aggro except him"

Morwen · 01/22/10, 8:32 PM

Is there any particular reason that some of the incoming abilities get around 60-70% partial resists? Twilight Bloodbolt, for example, has a tooltip damage of 10k, but in actuality only hits people for 3-4k with the rest showing up as resists. Likewise the fires that are left on the ground are supposed to tick for 4k but only end up hitting people for 1k.

Here's a log breakdown of the latter effect:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

There are also many pets on there with the usual 90% reduction but are still only taking about 1k base. Interestingly the ticks on the Ebon Gargoyle and Bloodworm look like they are the full 4k base, and Greater Fire Elementals are taking 2k base. These pets are the ones that are summoned after the start of the encounter so presumably they are not getting the same resistance buffs. It's possible that there is some spellshadow resistance double-dip mechanic at work here but on the other hand the twilight bloodbolt splash portion doesn't exhibit this behavior and hits people for 8-9k.

Old · 01/23/10, 8:33 PM

3rd player in aggro will be bitten first. If you have 1 player higher than your off tank, which means that your off tank is 3rd, she will bite the 4th because she ignores linked player.

We tried it 5 times, it worked that way, 100% approved.

Elyzm · 01/23/10, 11:24 PM

How are people handling the healing in 10 man? The raid healing required is so much higher than any other fight in the game so far. I've seen logs where people are 2 healing it, and that seems insane, but maybe there is something my raid is missing.

We've tried Pal/Sham/Discpriest, and Pal/Sham/Rdruid, all in full 25 ToGC gear besides the Druid.

Are there any specific tips people can give for healing the encounter? We had the Druid blanketing the raid with HoTs, the Paladin on the tanks, and the Shaman healing the raid, specifically focusing on linked or swarmed players. Each healer was putting out over 7-8k hps, and whenever one of them had to move, people died.

Could it be that we had too many ranged DPS so we couldn't abuse Glyph of Holy Light and Chain Heal? We only had 1 Melee DPS. We were getting to about 50% with only 2 people bit, so the healing would probably get less intense later on I imagine, but healing-wise it seems to be overtuned right now, unless we're doing it drastically wrong.

Starfire · 01/23/10, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Elyzm

How are people handling the healing in 10 man? The raid healing required is so much higher than any other fight in the game so far. I've seen logs where people are 2 healing it, and that seems insane, but maybe there is something my raid is missing.

We've tried Pal/Sham/Discpriest, and Pal/Sham/Rdruid, all in full 25 ToGC gear besides the Druid.

Are there any specific tips people can give for healing the encounter? We had the Druid blanketing the raid with HoTs, the Paladin on the tanks, and the Shaman healing the raid, specifically focusing on linked or swarmed players. Each healer was putting out over 7-8k hps, and whenever one of them had to move, people died.

Could it be that we had too many ranged DPS so we couldn't abuse Glyph of Holy Light and Chain Heal? We only had 1 Melee DPS. We were getting to about 50% with only 2 people bit, so the healing would probably get less intense later on I imagine, but healing-wise it seems to be overtuned right now, unless we're doing it drastically wrong.

You can always use Chain Heal. Tell them to move in closer. There is no reason to use the full room in 10 man, just stay 6 years apart and it'll be fine.

Also, your other healers need to compensate better. One healer moving means the other two healers need to compensate.

Oliria · 01/24/10, 5:38 PM

We've been progression on Blood-Queen 25-man this week, and sometimes we wipe due to people standing in fire. We've realised that not everyone get the screen effect. There's a full screen effect on Swarming shadows and frenzied bloodthirst, but only 50% of our guild gets it. We've tried all the graphic settings with no result.

Anyone having the same problem?

Demgar · 01/24/10, 6:00 PM

The hotfix on 10 man, that's adjusted the buff duration, has had the unfortunate side effect of making the second air phase coincide exactly with the bite phase (4 biting 4). The second air phase is now extremely tricky, with the need to get to your target and bite them, but to also maintain separation or get fiery death rained down on thee from above.

Our raid was straddling heroism across this second air phase, as the enrage timer isn't much of an issue, but healing the heavy raid damage was. The self healing has tapered off here owing to the movement and melee being unable to reach her. The damage on the raid has ramped up with additional missiles, as well as the bite damage, and the normal AoE ticks. If you can come out of this with 9-10 players up, you are looking good for a kill.

LiteSabre · 01/24/10, 6:09 PM

You can get around that exactly the same way you get around the synching of the first air phase with bloodthirst in 25 man, by delaying the first bite by around 10 seconds.

sp00n · 01/24/10, 7:45 PM

And by delaying the first bite, you mean waiting for almost the full timer your first player has before performing the bite on another player, and not some weird mechanic to make Lana'thel delay her first bite, correct?