We all hate AQ trash, but you have to be smart about this. Why hack? Just spam invites to another raids guild members until you have a C'tun trash clear instance. Its old fashion and more hilarious.

A surprising number of people will consider something that is wrong to be "acceptable" if it comes from a voice of authority.

that is awesome, figures you're from an rp server

That sucks

Go EU Horde domination!

Calling bullshit. No guild that has killed KT would react to taking away 100% of their accomplishments as "nobody was angry or disappointed." You are devistated. You are very angry. You are a cheater. You got what you deserved.

No one should care about griefing on a PvP server--I mean, that's why you roled there, right? It may be annoying at the time, but there's no surprise.

Now, changing the game's files to exploit an instance...is another thing entirely. Slaps on the wrist and suspensions are for exploiting encounters via in-game mechanics. Hacking the game code itself for the purpose of exploiting an instance HAS to be perma-ban, no warning no questsions asked-territory.

Though it sucks about the people who got banned who did not endorse or participate in this activity. Hopefully there will be a review to reverse those particular bans.

Decimation: A cohort selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group cast lots, and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing.

Because the punishment fell by lot, all soldiers in the selected cohort were eligible for execution, regardless of rank or distinction. As a result, the threat of decimation inspired fear and resolve into the Roman Legions. However, because a decimation significantly reduced the troop strength of an army, it is believed that the punishment was rarely used.



inspires fear. think many people will even think about doing this? probably not.

Well, I don't think the ends justify the means--in this case, banning innocent people who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time in order to "inspire fear." I'm pretty sure the measure would be just as effective if only the people involved were banned(obviously this includes people who fought against C'Thun using the exploit in any manner, not just those who directly modified the MPQ's).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment is the link I like to bust out for this. :P



Also, this seems to indicate that people who didn't participate were not banned:

Why would they not ban 7 members, then ban trials who had not been part of the exploit? I can't imagine they would.

That's not a sensible way to proceed and I think you know it. Don't be inflammatory or the thread will get heaped. I'd rather the people in question could actually come here and talk about what happened/why etc without people just going /point /laugh /just desserts. Because that's not really very constructive.

The point I think is, that CThun loot is mostly the best upgrades outside of the latter bosses in Naxxramas. If you can farm Cthun without having to spend 3 hours clearing first that not only frees up an entire night from your schedule but also equips your raid at a vastly accelerated rate, making Naxxramas even easier to farm.
As we all know, assuming equal skill, gear makes a significant difference to the ease of encounters and I doubt this fact escaped the perpetrators.

Dumb, and deserved imo.

Im not going to pretend knowing anything about the situation but you could as easily have killed Skeram (which i assume they have to do), realise they are going to exploit, leave the raid and still have the same raid_id.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen a guild do. It's especially surprising because the culprit is an accomplished raiding guild which is presumably led by intelligent people.

You're the only US horde guild that has killed Kel'thuzad. They're going to monitor you. What on earth did you guys think would happen? I mean, was this brilliant plan actually brought up in officer chat and everyone just said "yeah, this sounds like a smart move"?

This story is interesting on an almost Jerry Springer-like level that leaves most of us boggling at just what you people were thinking when you decided this was a good idea. I'd almost be embarrassed for you, but then I remember that this is the same guild that houses Pantaloons and all I can do is chuckle.

Bravo.

Just an FYI... if theres an issue with looting a GM won't restore it anymore. Tried tonight. The more you know

We had the recipient of T3 Glove tokens changed only on tuesday....

I think thats only if its happened on your account before as its 1 item restore per account (as always theres a chance i could be wrong).

Nope :)

Tbh it's pretty open and shut case ... fry em all!

Buc only got to use his ashbringer for one night. Poor sod. Shoulda listened to Scruff McGruff. Crime doesn't pay. 8(

The issues that led to them doing such a thing, what made it possible in the first place, Blizzard's methods of combating such activities, and the way in which a whole guild might be persuaded to exploit in such a blatant manner are valid topics for discussion though.

I'm going to have to echo Sebudai's sentiment's on this. I find it difficult to imagine how such a thing comes about. Did the entire raid of 30-some people mannage to justify using this exploit because "the rest of the instance is on farm" or just too long? Was there no one in the officer structure of the guild who said, "Hm, moral or not, this is probably a really obvious way of cheating that could easily get us caught?" Did various members who got summoned by the actual exploiters actually think that they would be blameless because they weren't the ones hacking their client files? (Rahaan seems to make this kind of argument on the public boards, as well as alleging that Blizzard issued multiple bans to persons who didn't participate in *any* way -- is that true as well, or is Rahaan just upset?)

A discussion on the morals of this really isn't going anywhere productive, but I'm most interested in how a decision to do such a thing on a guild-wide scale can come about.

Edit: Unfortunately, these are questions that only Zagzil or other OR members can really answer, otherwise this thread won't go anywhere. We'll see if any of them feel like it sometime soon I guess...

Its the luck of the draw. I can tell you countless times where GM's have said no to fixing loot mistakes [Even with both players opening tickets]. It comes down to if they "feel" like giving a damn and doing thier job. If you cant tell im thrilled with blizzards GM support.


Edit-
Back on topic with the mass guild ban. Blizzard needs to sort this mess out, those who were banned for just having Raid ID should have thier accounts back [If thats the case]. This seems to me they would rather slaughter ten innocents to kill one guilty.

This seems awful for rejected recruits who happened to share the ban, especially if they weren't entirely clued in to what was going on.

Why should they get them back?

They knew about what was going on, they took part in it. They deserve the ban imo, much as it sucks for them, they surely werent expecting to get away with it?