Interesting...will have to hop on beta server and check this out.

Though the sets look disappointing overall...Tier 3.5?

Imageshack makes me want to /wrists.

Somewhat lackluster sets, though I guess they'll be reevaluated before any of us will get them on live servers.

It has 3 sockets. If you chose to put 3 gems in their based on the maximum stamina you can gain it would be much more than Dreadnought. Personally I like choices.

A comparison of Scryer vs. the corresponding 5 pieces of Frostfire. For the gemmed version I used:

Metagem: +14 crit rating/1% spell reflect proc
Yellow gems: +6 dmg/+5 crit rating (orange)
Red gem: +12 dmg (red)
Blue gems: +5 dmg/+6 stam (purple)

Of course you could select different gems, but this combo results in the following changes vs. those 5 pieces of Frostfire:

+28 stam
+24 int
+42 spi
+26 dmg
+11 hit rating
+33 crit rating

Shaman sets:

To be honest, you can't really compare these sets to T3 right now, since we didn't know anything about high-end gems ..

Also, I find it interesting that they get rid of the set bonuses concept. Either way, 5 piece sets without set bonuses quite likely means these are the Karazhan drops and not BC raid sets.

Well, yes, could be that, but if I were a developer at Blizzard, I wouldn't put this into the game without set bonuses IF they do have some, simply because the massive whine that will follow with all the rtards crying all over the net "omg blizz failed at sets" .. :P

Where can you host something that won't pull the links once you've linke them on FOH or EJ?

for warriors T3 has more armor than T4 . This says a lot about the quality imo.

What's disappointing to me at this point is that there don't seem to be specialized sets for all the classes, as implied in Kalgan's statement:

Perhaps they're just not done yet, but I'm not optimistic.

That's not true, a DoT warlock has very little use for all the +crit on voidheart.

i thought blue has stated several times that some T4 will drop in Karazhan, and some in 25-mans. i'm pretty sure someone else mentioned this fact earlier in this thread as well.

You *have* to include sockets. They're factored into the item's budget. You can't say "Ok this isn't as good non-socketed" because well, it isn't, since the item formula takes into account the fact you'll be slapping 8 spell damage, 6 stamina, etc into each socket.

As for the comment about where the pieces drop, it was never specifically stated other than Karazhan. It will be dropping elsewhere as well, but the other locations are pure speculation at this point.

I reallly hope so, because I'm not raiding half of next year for this type of "upgrade". I love raiding, but it really takes the shine off when your reward is marginal items, some of which you may not even wear due to your current set bonuses AND a money sink in socketing it.

Plus if you want to PvP it looks like you are going to be at a serious stamina disadvantage wearing raid gear. I'd suggest that not even the most "no-life" of us has the time to grind PvP rep AND raid for progression.

I think people need to keep sockets in mind. These will provide a fair chunk of additional stats, it's all very well to look at the items unsocketed and say 'But they're no better than T3!' But what are they going to look like once we socket them? From the few gems I've seen, it should be a significant stat increase.

On top of that, these are PvE sets, for those discussing the lack of stamina. It looks to me like Blizzard intend to seperate the PvE and PvP itemization, so if you want to PvP in your raid gear, don't expect to be nearly as effective as the guy in equivelant PvP gear.

And finally, they aren't a huge upgrade over T3, but isn't that the point, and more or less what people have been predicting all along. People in T 1 - 2/casuals will get significant upgrades which they can use to move forward into the new raid content or wherever they want to go, those in T3 will be able to keep their gear into the lowest tier of raid content, skipping the 'UBRS of BC' stuff, or they can do it for moderately minor upgrades. It means those in Naxx still have some form of motivation to keep working on progression, since they may well be using the gear into the first tier of 25 mans.

Exactly! 3 Gem slots can be +36 damage to a mage/warlock chest, 36 stamina to a warrior tank, 36 agility to a rogue/hunter etc yet people seem to be ignoring sockets....

It's like if the had a choice between

A)

+20 stam
+20 int
+40 dmg
+20 spell crit

and

B)

+15 stam
+20 int
+30 dmg
+10 spell crit
Socket
Socket
Socket
Socket Bonus

Most people would be going for option a which is clearly inferior after b has been socketed. Also who knows what gems Black Temple and the like will allow to be cut.

This stuff could just be a more achievable goal aimed towards the more casual community? You guys are acting like this is the be all and end all of purple gear, stuff that should replace your naxx loot without a doubt. Maybe its designed to be some sort of entry level to keep the average gamer happy? We know almost nothing so far so complaining about how terrible some of it is may be a little premature, especially considering this is a beta build.

"Normal" white gems from a Vendor in Shattrath are +6 stamina, "Rare" gems being sold in Thrallmar are +9 stamina, so I imagine if there will be "Epic" gems, those will be 12 stamina or more even. Just to indicate how they scale at the moment.

Gems are going to do a lot to improve items, and so far all it takes for Tier 4 is one single Token drop (Legs of the Fallen Defender, for example). That's ONE token drop without ANY rep or material requirements, for stuff that can be socketed and is basically on par or better than Tier 3 when it has been socketed.

I honestly don't see why people are crying. Most of this stuff is better than we can get in Live right now, it will be the one thing casuals can cheer about, and it's a very nice stepping stone for the hardcore raiders. Please don't think this is the final Tier or something, I imagine Tempest Keep loot and Black Temple loot is gonna be in a league of its own.

delljit: You could be right, although I think there's a major preconception going into TBC that raid t4 is the next logical upgrade from t3, otherwise where does this 'lvl 70 dungeon hard mode' loot from 5 mans fit in? That also was a (slight) upgrade to t3. It would make most sense to me to have t3->t4 and dungeon set 2(t0.5)->lvl 70 5 man hard mode (ie dungeon set 3 effectively) as the casual upgrade path.

Anyway I'm not too worried either, this stuff is clearly better than t3 once socketed, albeit rather questionaly stat budgeted in some cases.

Epic gems? You mean like the ones you can get from the honour system?

Hard mode loot fills in the blanks. I've seen epic bracers and belts drop from Steamvaults and Shadow Labs, e.g. I imagine boots will drop in Tempest Keep's lvl 70 hardmode wing. That makes 1 full Tier 4 set :)

I've linked images here using PhotoBucket and never once had the link go down.