Basically is the 6 piece FrostFire bonus viable for raids? Orginally when the set was released this 'bonus' increased the damage of the next magical damage by 200 for all sources of magical dmg, direct dmg, warlock dots, hunter stings etc resulting in a rather half ass set bonus (i'm assuming even the default fireball dot could consume this charge) Have the mechanics behind this spell been modified or rather fixed so that dots don't consume/waste the charge?

I pulled the data up on Elemental Vulnerability for easy access

edited to removed incorrect question on charge

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=28772

Because you're looking at the wrong one. You're looking at the passive enchantment you get from the set bonus, not the actual proc effect.

No, it's one charge: http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=28772

Also, several of your assumptions are wrong to my knowledge. It's a very good set bonus for overall raid damage. Less so for individual e-peen.

Yeah, I just found the correct page for the spell directly after I posted this and I was coming back to edit the orginal post : /
Which part of my assumptions are wrong as I'd be delighted to wrong. I'll admit I personally have no experience with the proc and I'm theorycrafting (only 2 FF so far as I'm going for non set pieces) and unforunately my theory stems from some the BS posted on the WOW forums. But I was under the rather strong impresion that dots consumed the charge therefore rendering said proc rather useless for raiding. And honestly I was looking at it as rather useless even for soloing unless your a frost mage.

Why does it matter what consumes the charge if raid dps increases? Unless you're implying that the only "proper" way to consume this is with a record-setting mage crit.

Things like Arcane Shot consume it and get barely any benefit, which is somewhat annoying.

Well then you have a different problem, but no matter what it is free damage which is probably a ton better then most set bonuses.

something like arcane shot would be less 'dangerous' as you wont pull aggro supriseingly with an unlucky timed debuff + arcane crit. Cant say the same about fireball or shadow bolt.

and wouldnt +200 damage be all the same for everything? if a fireball would have hit for 1000, but instead hit for 1200 thats a net gain of 200. If an arcane would have hit for 450 but instead hit for 650, thats a net gain of the same 200. how does it matter what takes the debuff?

I was watching a video of this proc and it was resisted like 19 out of 20 times, much like how imp. scorch resists but the main spell doesnt, really anoying when all your trying todo is reset the debuff I wonder if anyone else found it gets resisted alot ?

If by "barely any" you mean 86 damage, with the same coefficient as a Scorch. If a mage is chain-casting Scorch and procs this, then it doesn't matter if an Arcane Shot or some other "bad" instant spell consumes the proc (using Arcane Shot as a random example, of course, since no one actually uses that) -- you're still getting the benefit. And if you proc it with Scorch but someone else consumes the proc with Frostbolt or Fireball or Shadowbolt, then you have actually increased your DPS by having someone else consume it. This point was made effectively in a thread by Sancus from Ropetown, I believe, several months ago.

Thank you for the above comments, I guess I should have made my orginal question less open ended, so I'll try and rephrase the question below

What I'm really interested in learning is if the charge is consumed by dots. And which dots consume the charge and when the charge is consumed. The best case being that dots don't consume the charge (either long term dots ie warlock, nor uncontrollable side effect dots, fireball), If the charge is consumed with the application of a long term dot but not the the side effect dots, or if the charge is consumed by any and all dots. If consumed by any and all dots, does the spell dmg apply across the total duration of the dot or is it consumed for a minimal +dmg when a dot ticks

I think his argument is that arcane shot would only get ~43% (or whatever) of the buff's effectiveness due to the scaling on instants.

Even so, that's not exactly a realistic concern, especially if you have 4 or more mages spamming a target with fireballs.

Edit: beaten soundly and dot question:
nm !

I've been using the 6pc bonus for a couple weeks now, and even though it's only 1 charge it's very, very good. For dots I believe it functions like Imp Shadowbotl does, so dots get the damage benefit from it but don't eat the only; only DD spells do. That may not be entirely true as the only small scale testing I was able to do was with an idiot priest, but I'm taking his word on his SW;P ticking higher.

About hunters though, in a raid situation, do hunters even arcane shot? Never played one past 10 but I thought multi and arcane where on the same cd, and multi is what's used in the shot rotation. So chances are as long as you have no idiots in your raid, the only DD magic spells hitting the target are going to be scorch/fireball/frostbolt/shadowbolt. Most of those get a decent enough impact from the bonus.

Besides, it's not like you're exactly gimping your gear loadout to wear 6 pieces of FF. Assuming you can get the ring, ~5 of the pieces are already the optimal thing you can have in that slot, and then at most you lose a +hit on gloves, or +crit on bracers

DoTs do not consume the charge. Direct spells do. So setting aside stuff like Arcane Explosion (I have no idea if this does or doesn't consume a charge -- I would assume it does, and would be the worst thing one could do with a charge, but how often are you using AE on something that's also being nuked by a mage directly?), the worst you can possibly do is a 0.43*200 = 86 extra damage on a 1.5sec base spell, or an instant. The bonus works best for someone who is chain-casting Scorch to proc it and is in a raid with warlocks and frost mages who are using their long-cast spells for DPS. The bonus works worst for a frost mage who is chain-casting Frostbolt to proc it and is in a raid full of Scorch-spamming fire mages. But even then, it's not terrible.

With Scorch proccing I can see your point, but our only 6 piece presently is on a chain-casting Frost mage in a raid of Fire mages. It procs decently though, enough that I've been able to notice it on the mob without paying too much attention even with a 2.5 cast spell.

Hmm, nice to here the dot don't consume the charge, would anyone be able to confirm Mekasha's post on dots gaining the +dmg bonus?

Arcane explosion does indeed eat charges, but also can proc it on any target you hit, for stuff like skitterer packs free damage is free damage. In pvp having it proc from frost nova is sweet, as is having a fireblast trigger it before a fireball hits your target.

I've never noticed blizzard or flamestrike proc the debuff, but Arcane Missile can proc the debuff on every wave of missiles, and seems to do so at a fairly high rate.

Raid-dps wise, its nice to have mages with it, dont doubt it.
Overall whiel sometimes yuo might get it to proc after a fireball and be consumed by a scorch, its still an increase, and theres plenty of times where the opposite happens.

I've leveled from 60 to 67 on the test server and its actualy quite nice for that, since you get to use it and not somenoe else :)

Sadly Molten Armor currently waste it... but at the same time... molten armor can proc it as well... It can also trigger http://thottbot.com/beta?i=3152 which is pretty nice !

Even so, let's assume the worst case and assume that every proc is consumed by a Scorch (unlikely since fire mages do use fireball at times, and obviously warlocks cast bolts). Anyway, so every 2.5sec you have a 20% chance to apply a debuff that ultimately will add 86 base damage (before crit, fire vuln, CoE, etc.) to a mob. That is equivalent to, roughly, +24 dam on your own gear.

If you were the only one ever using the charges as a frost mage, you'd get a 20% chance for 162 base damage every 2.5sec, roughly equivalent to having a permanent +40 dam on your gear.

If you are proccing it with Scorch and someone else is consuming it with Frostbolt, then that's equivalent to 67 dam/heal on your gear.

Even in the worst-case scenario, a +24 dam equivalency is not horrible.

I have a feeling that +dmg buffs are always consumed when the spell lands, while procentual increases are calculated each time damage ticks. If dot ticks would consume such charges, things like deep wounds would eat hemo-charges and corruption and agony would eat a huge amount of ZHC charges.

Scorch chaincasting mage proccing this proc is always going to benefit if someone else uses it, as there are no viable dmgspells that benefit less from +dmg. It's probably best used by succubus sacrificing warlock casting corruption while accompanied byt heavy critting warlock friend for constant imp. SB proc and shadowpriest giving shadowweaving. Can anyone come up with a scheme where +200dmg proc would yeald more than 1.1x.1.15x1.15x1.20x200 = 349dmg? (CoS, Succu Sacc, Shadow Weaving, Imp. Shadowbolt)

A couple of months ago(August/September), there was a report in the Mage forum that the 6/9 FF proc would not "stick" on a mob with full debuffs. Has anyone seen what happens when the mob is full of debuffs and the 6/9 FF procs ?

The main problem I find with this spell is there is so little information about it. I'd love for a 6/9 FF mage to do some testing and post the results