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Old 11/07/06, 4:46 PM   #26
 squiffy
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Blackrock
The Zanza swiftness pot for your kiters can be very valuable.

We used to do the kite till things got hairy, then a volley from a warrior controlling Razor (usually me), I'd then take Razor to the far end of the room and let him get beat a little by the mobs, drop control, take swiftness pot and proceed to kite 20+ mobs around the room.

I used to let the mobs beat on Razor as it seemed that after doing that, the damage they did to him transferred in agro to me when dropping control and gave a lot of leeway for healing agro if I ever got caught on the kite and had to get healed big and fast. Of course that may be completely wrong, but it worked at the time :)

Now, we kill all Orcs. Much easier.

To the OP, you say you've had BWL on farm for 6-7 months but that on a good night you're trying for an under 5 hour clear? No to sound like an ass, but we've killed Nef maybe 8 times now, and we do a full BWL clear in about 3 and a half hours, with prob 30 minutes at least dicking round on loot, so your 5 hours sounds strangely slow.

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Old 11/07/06, 7:34 PM   #27
Vaxen
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Cenarion Circle
We had similar difficulties as the OP. BWL was on farm status, but Razorgore was still a 50-50 proposition with the kiting strat. We switched to a kill strat, but reliability did not improve much.

We made two adjustments which did the trick for us:
1) We changed from hunter/warlock/druid CC of dragonkin (which tied up 12 players) to the 2 warrior kite (with druid sleep)
2) We changed from corner assignments to spawn point assignments, where each group is responsible for killing all orcs which emerge from their assigned spawn point

Without the adjustments, we'd occasionally have spawns escape and begin to collect and wreak havoc. Usually this would happen with 2 simultaneous spawns from a given corner, where one would get killed and the other would escape. Freeing up additional DPS and avoiding untargetted extra spawns fixed that for us.

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Old 11/07/06, 9:30 PM   #28
Antarius
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Scilla
One thing that would occasionally trip us up when we first switched from kiting to Killing (without server lag, kiting becomes harder, and dps'ing becomes easier, making it a no-brainer) Was not completely optimizing the corner groups for the BEST dps possible, meaning stacking the groups for maximum melee damage, and having Mages/Warlocks DPS'ing in corners out of group so that every warrior/rogue possible has windfury. It's not enough to just throw a shaman druid warrior mage and rogue into a corner group, they won't be able to kill fast enough.

Honestly though, some of our shaman just weren't skilled enough to pull off their kiting, sometimes they'd not get aggro on the mobs as they'd spawn and after even just 1 of them died, the kiting strat goes to shit as mobs break loose and start 1-shotting healers and other kiters, but our DPS classes tended to be some of the best players in the guild.

Another thing that tripped us up was our orb-clicker, being a tauren, had problems standing on the lower ledge under the orb, so we force(d) warlocks to be up on the ledge fearing mobs if they aggroed him which, of course, lowers their dps output.

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Old 11/07/06, 10:07 PM   #29
Cesar2000
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight (EU)
We've always kited and its never been much of a problem. Maybe once per month we wipe. Druids/hunters/locks handle dragons. Warriors take the legos.

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Old 11/07/06, 10:29 PM   #30
Elerion
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Vaxen
Usually this would happen with 2 simultaneous spawns from a given corner, where one would get killed and the other would escape. Freeing up additional DPS and avoiding untargetted extra spawns fixed that for us.
You need to teach your healers to do something other than healing when they have spare time during that phase. SWP and Mind Blast are excellent for picking up mobs and leading them back to the tanks/dps.

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Old 11/07/06, 11:14 PM   #31
Norgrod
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
The Venture Co (EU)
We cleared BWL in less than 3 before we killed C'Thun, what's taking you guys so long?

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Old 11/07/06, 11:22 PM   #32
Ngita
Don Flamenco
 
Human Paladin
 
<Aus>
Proudmoore
We allways kited, No fearing just hunters and Warriors and any Paladin who picked up early healing aggro. Probably went 3-4 months with no issues at all besides orb controller dc etc. But since BWl is know on our most unpopular night and is growing increasingly unpopular with naxx geared mains we have had a few wipes trying to substitute people in who dont know what they are doing. It doesnt help our clear speed is dropping back from 2 hours at its best to often 3-3.5 hours.

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Old 11/07/06, 11:39 PM   #33
xi0nic
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by subscience
^ We also use a solo Warrior to Volley > kite everything. The only downside is that if he goes down, all hell breaks loose. Otherwise, everything is very easily managed.
My "progressing through AQ" guild does the same thing. We start off with having all warriors kite Legos and Hunters on Dragons. If shit starts hitting the proverbial fan, which it almost inevitably will, our supertank/raidleader will Volley and kite every damn mob in the room. Stubby dwarf training all those mobs is just hilarity.

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Old 11/07/06, 11:56 PM   #34
Dakous
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Drenden
Originally Posted by Vaxen
We made two adjustments which did the trick for us:
1) We changed from hunter/warlock/druid CC of dragonkin (which tied up 12 players) to the 2 warrior kite (with druid sleep)
Went from a guild that did it a chaoticy way that sounds like OP - things work, things also go wrong, to another guild, and ended up with basically the above. Two well ZG/MC geared tanks are all you need, and the strategy scales perfectly with gear (as opposed to kite strats, where speed is constant and the primary factor). Being able to throw heals all over the place is cool, too.

Our druid sleep method wasn't a main part of the strategy (that is, ideally, no dragonkin were slept), but rather a placeholder for waiting for the warrior doing the rounds to pick up.

The key values of this strategy over the others is that it's a fairly low gearcheck (we tried a warrior each corner, so lower than that), fairly low skillcheck (if you don't have two warriors that can pull this off, how are you going anywhere in the raid game), and scales with gear (warriors taking less damage / everyone else killing orcs faster / healers having even more spare mana to AFK with).

Everybody is your brother until the rent comes due.

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Old 11/08/06, 12:44 AM   #35
Raves
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Hunter
 
Khadgar
Originally Posted by Plea
Are we the only ones who tanked the dragons? 1 warrior to every corner, tanking 3 dragons each.
That is how we did it from our first kill on. Have the priest fear from time to time to ease up some of the incoming damage. As soon as our warriors were semi geared, this was an easy win for us each time.

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