your pet can live through maexxna easily if it gets a few heals. my pet basically never dies there via a few renews and POH. i never go OOM on kel, but that's with 8 piece CS and mana regen on bracers, where a lot of people use stam.

i'm frequently at or near the top of the charts on all the fights you mentioned - fankriss i'm nowhere close because of our strategy (which is paladin consecration tanking spawns on top of fankriss, which makes multishot non-viable), and ouro isn't even close in the other direction - this is the last meter i have from there, which is actually before i had more than maybe 2 pieces of CS and certainly no slavemaker:



i'm not below hit cap - i'm not sure where you see that. with +8 and eye of nerub you're capped based on the impact of +weapon skill on ranged hit %. i have a DFT and don't use it because i don't need it, though i swap it in just for the 56 AP on spider wing :-P

Newbie, question but does slightly higher ping delay aimed shot and multi shot casting?

Yes, as the ping gets closer to 0 the more perfect a cycle will be, giving more DPS.

To those who're trying to aid their hunters, refer them to BigTrouble, a simple mod that displays auto/aimed shot casting bars.

k, SS'd meters from the rest of naxx for the sake of this thread. i kite on anub and i'm on the wall on maexxna, so those aren't really meaningful meters, and our synch channel was messed up on faerlina :-/

here's noth, where we use an AOE strat that has all DPS on noth whenever he's on the floor.



gluth, although to be fair here i'm the 4th hunter so i'm on tranq backup for when the others miss and can generally focus on damage.



i got ported mid kots/rapid fire on heigan, but here it is anyway



here's this week's loatheb. again, everyone has world buffs, and i have a mongoose pot, squid, and a consecrated stone. rigg and radiante were the only DW fury warriors in this raid (rule is 2h fury) - rigg was in the second spore group along with me (first is 4 fire mages and atiesh lock), radiante is in spore group 3.



my saph meter was kind of unimpressive, since i'm usually at worst 2nd here, but mager stole a million ignites and i had to move more than usual in air stages



i actually died at around 50% to a frost blast on kel, and got combat res'd at 30something, but here's the meter for completeness's sake. i was 20k ahead #2 on the DM when i died, and did the rest of the fight without buffs, while everyone else still had our world buff set.



so there's everything, so i don't get accused of only posted meters where i blow people away :-P moral of the story: hunter damage doesn't suck.

i posted this in sustained dps, but:

this is with rhokdelar and 2/9 CS

I assume it means tank the adds till noth goes up. and then bring everything to the middle and aoe the hell out of them before noth comes back.

at least that used to be our aoe strat until our mages went on vacation :(

kinda offtopic but id love a thread where everyone could just post damagemeters screenshots for each boss, so we can make comparisons. (Maybe even meaninful comparisons if dps is shown along side them)

Elendril: Can you post what mods (specifically related to dps) and macros (multishot/howl etc) you use if any.

Screenshots of DMs tend to be skewed unless they are exactly explained as Elendril has done.

I've been discussing hunter dps with him and we noted that strats for bosses were sometimes completely different and that certain things weren't being synced (My guild doesn't sync pets with hunter dmg).

So generic DMs aren't necessarily telling; rather you should aim for the amount of dmg done per fight.

There are a few fights I've surpassed certain dmg amounts but been whooped by other classes, which leads me to believe there's alot of strat differences. =/

I completely agree. It's almost useless to compare DM's unless they're fully outlined and the strats being used are the same. Variance in strats could leave a person a lot less time to DPS by comparison and thus give different numbers.

Having been in the same guild as Arysa up until recently (I left due to connection issues, still can't play), I feel her pain in terms of the pets. I have my meters synched whenever I raid, and I have it rolling pets up. It paints a different story on some fights, especially if you scroll your pet and have it buffed. It still amazes me how much people underestimate pet damage.

Another thing that isn't counted for us is the effects our pets/auras have. Even if you're not the top in damage, if you're an aura/wolf whore for rogues/dps warriors, you're providing a substantial buff to the raid's damage.

Looking at the damage meters to see who is performing or not is good, and in the OP's case trying to determine if something's wrong, but it's not a very good judge of overall raid contribution. It's best used to determine outliers that are problematic.

Yeah, the rogues don't like their precious epeens being damaged by mere hunters. ;)

I'm workin on it, I'm workin on it. Stupid ISP.

none. i use almost default UI, with like...ct_mod, titan bar, and itemrack, besides SWstats. itemrack actually is meaningful since i can queue up trinket swaps pre-feign so i don't lose any time dpsing, but i don't have a howl/MS macro or any shot timer mods.

as for the noth strat question - we corner tank the skeletons the entire time noth is on the ground, and then when he teleports we bring them to the middle to AOE and assist down the other spawns during the port stage.

With my gear setup IP VI + GoA is actually a slight DPS increase over Windfury.

Just quickly switching my weapon to a Death's Sting on the spreadsheet, however, reverses that upgrade (it's +/- ~1dps on both sides). So even for a Naxx geared combat daggers rogue I think you can hardly say that Windfury "owns" for combat daggers that much more than GoA + Poison.

Thanks very much for the Damage Meter comparisons. I think after seeing those now i have less of a confusion associated with your posts Elendril. It seemed to me that every post was followed with you making a comment about how you mostly top the damage meter everywhere aside form patch/thaddius, nice to see your mortal like the rest of us.

Consequently, im not really sure you can make a valid comparison unless the entire guild is decked to the teeth though. Your using practically the best dps gear avaliable by a large margin. If there are any upgrades left for you in naxx, they are very very minor. Is everyone else in the guild in the same boat?

Aside from that, i agree for the most part, that hunter dps is fine. Its not nearly as impressive as you make it sound unless you have similar gear, and not many of us do. The kelthuzad bow i would imagine makes a huge difference in shot rotation dps. For hunters who arent killing kel, which is a vast majority of them, DPS is not top 3 or top 5 on most/all fights. Top 10 is certainly possible/acceptable for most hunters, and assuming they have BWL+ gear and they have a really solid shot rotation, this is not an unreasonable thing to expect in naxx.

So while i agree that hunter dps is acceptable and in many fights good, i dont agree that its spectacular, unless your running the impressive gear that Elen is running.

if you want to look up specific details of everyone's gear to get a sense of the comparison, you're welcome to check out our DKP history here: http://lostanarchy.com/naxx/listmembers.php

i do have close to the best gear available (i could still use CS ring, cloak of the scourge, kel neck, and slayer's crest), but that's pretty much the case for most of my guild at this point. we've only gotten one kel one hander, but all of the rogues have death's sting/servo arm/maexxna's fang (and one kingsfall), the fury warriors have GM weapons at worst, and the casters all have wraith blade/brimstone staff. pretty much everyone has at worst 4-5 piece tier 3 and/or assorted nonset DPS gear. i was putting up similarly competitive numbers with Ash and less CS when other people also had lesser gear - the main difference is actually the number of potions and demonic runes/mana oils i have to use.

and yeah, i certainly don't hit #1 on every fight, but no one does :-P i'm not trying to say that hunters are the best dps class in the game or anything, and i didn't mean to imply that i constantly blew everyone out on every meter :-P all i'm doing is refuting the widespread myth that hunters can't do competitive damage compared to other DPS classes, because that's just not true.

The point wasn't that good gear means good damage for hunters. The point is that, when putting forth effort, hunters can compete for top spots on the Damage Meters. Given proper equipment, spec, shot rotation, fight understand and consumable use, hunters are top damage dealers. Nobody is going to top the DM every time, but any well played DPS class can compete.

Topping the charts has alot to do with fight design and strategy. Mix them up and a hunter could go from the top of the charts to the bottom.

Our dmg output compared to other classes is what I would consider to be low however. PW while it is a fight favoring those who would normally need to hold back, still makes me bitter because I feel any class going all out should be able to compete.

Having FD is a benefit that gives us an edge in threat requiring fights, and it's the trade-off.

Hunter is also, one of the most attention required classes. I can reach 185k on PW without my pet synced in, but screw up my shot rotation and I'll drop in damage.

Also the damage meters from my guild always seem to be different, but I'm basing that mostly on strat differences.

Blue bars above me anger me. ><

i'm not sure why blue bars would anger you. on any fight with AOE (gluth, maexxna, anub, our noth strat), mages are obviously doing a lot of damage by virtue of hitting lots of targets. loatheb is ignite-happy because of the crit buff, and obviously thaddius means completely insane roling ignites (i didn't SS that meter, but at one point last night Litori had done DOUBLE the damage of the next highest person). if your mages regularly flask, that's another edge they have over you (we only flask for the 'final three' - loatheb, sapph, kel, when everyone has world buffs anyway).

one thing you're ignoring about patchwerk is that it's not only a threat-ignoring fight, but also a purely stationary fight, as well as one for which 'execute range' is a huge window. bosses with lots of HP often favor warriors, because they have a bigger window in which they can go nuts with recklessness/death wish/whatever else to put out insane damage. the fact that it's stationary means that rogues and warriors don't miss out on any damage chasing - even on loatheb, ranged classes have something of an edge in travel time to spores, and the advantage of range obviously makes a much bigger difference on fights like sapphiron, gluth, kel'thuzad, and noth, where melee has to constantly reposition because while i can just stand there and shoot. if hunters could keep up with fury warriors and rogues on patchwerk, we would completely blow them away on every mobile fight.

I'm also forgetting alot of the time that if my pet was synced in my damage I'd be approx another 15-20k ahead of what I was prior, which would pass up a few mages/warriors.

yeah, for all people talk about our pets being just weak dots, they actually contribute a significant amount of damage on a lot of fights - not to mention giving the melee in our party furious howl :-P

Patch isn't a very execute-friendly fight, so that's a bit of a silly statement. Few guilds that havn't cross-server recruited for 4HM have more than 5 or so warriors on any given night, and by far the most common patch strategy involves 4 warriors in tank gear.