World buffs are good to have if you realy want to down any boss faster but i dont realy think ay Naxx encounter is made in such way that it require world buff to beat.
If blizz let things the way they are now i think that quite a lot guilds will use them even at lvl 70 and this will be realy poor decision.

Spending time doing trivial shit every week should = edge? Why, exactly? How does this make the game any more fun or challenging?

And don't kid yourself about the "challenge" of doing it on a pvp server. We've been on one of the most bloodthirsty EU pvp servers for years. A raid that bothers to move together and stay alert can only be stopped by a full ambush raid from the opposing side, and those are pretty damn rare.

Indeed. God help you if you happen to be standing in the way of a raid on its way to Loatheb.

As a slight twist on the OP, what do people think would make some interesting world buffs for the future? I think it's safe to assume that such things will exist in Outlands (as evidenced by the rend lookalike), so there's opportunity there to come up with something new.

Personally, after seeing the new protection flasks, I was thinking hp5/mp5 world buffs would be quite nifty. It seems like the emphasis is moving towards longer, more drawn out encounters, where longevity will win over burst. If that's the case, then a world buff along those lines would sit right at home with the type of encounters that people getting those buffs would be working on.

I hate world buffs. I hate anything that gives you an edge on any encounter, because either A) the encounter is designed with usage in mind, and therefore you pretty much have to use it, or B.) the encounter is not designed with usage in mind, and therefore using it makes the encounter trivial. I think A and B are both equally stupid. I can understand requiring a "standard" set of consumables for each class, but I hate doing things that trivialize encounters. Getting world buffs and flasking your whole raid on 4h/sapphiron for example makes it nearly impossible to wipe, and I personally think thats retarded. I've watched a video of a guild that did this on 4h, and you can see a druid at one point that stands in a void zone for 2 full ticks, takes 8k damage, survives it and moves away. You watch their dps and healers run in and out of thane at random times, eating solo meteors or having only 2 people eat it, and surviving. Using world buffs to overcome the fact that you fail at a certain aspect of the fight is dumb and doesn't prove anything -- all it does is ruin the encounter. Right now my guild is on sapphiron, and the biggest challenge for me as a healer is having my entire group topped when he goes in the air while still conserving my mana. We aren't very good at the fight yet, we've only spent one day on it, but I'm pretty sure if we got ZG/Ony/fair/DM/tower buffs and 40 flasks, we could probably kill him right now.

It just doesn't make any sense to me that theres anything built into the game that allows you to bypass certain elements of the fight, if you think about it, its practically exploiting. The "parry parry" trick on patchwerk was an exploit, because it allowed you to basically skip learning hateful strike, which is the hardest part of the fight. Using world buffs on certain fights esentially does the same thing, allows you to ignore certain elements of the fight because of said buffs. Of course, this doesn't mean that I'm not going to do use them, I just think its lame.

Actually, we've had an entire raid try to kill us with world buffs before. Two weeks ago our raid ended, and one of our "rival" guilds was getting the tower buff in EPL, and we decided to go wipe them. We killed their whole raid. This week we went to go get world buffs for loatheb, we got Ony/hakkar/etc, and they had their entire raid hearth out of naxx to try to come kill us. They were guarding the entrance to naxx, we tried to juke them but they had scouts that kept finding us, so we finally decided to just fight them. 40v40 world pvp is pretty fun, I'd have to say, although it wasn't very balanced since we had world buffs and stuff, we rolled over their entire raid and didn't even have 1 death. It was still fun, though.


EDIT: If you can't tell by everythign I've said above, I hope they're removed.

The problem with world buffs is that they are worth at least one full tier of gear. This means you can either balance encounters assuming full flasks/world buffs (making it required for everyone to do) or assume normal raid buffs (trivializing encounters where you actually do flask and world buff).

I find them a bad idea overall--just like flasks, they are too powerful--but I sure love having them for Loethab.

I'll have to agree that world buffs as they currently are implemented do not really fit in the game. If consumables are too powerful, then world buffs are doubly so. Sapphiron is an extreme example of this - since the fight is just all about HPmax, with enough world buffs, it becomes completely trivial. It's not even funny how easy the encounter is when everyone in the raid has over 8k HP compared to what it is like with no world buffs or flasks - we're not talking about a slight increase in margin of error here, the difference is ridiculous. I can forget to heal someone until they've lost 4k HP, and they still won't die if they get hit by a frostbolt. It completely trivializes healing for that encounter, which is what the whole fight is about.

Loatheb is similiar, you can do a shitload of mistakes with healing, you can mess up spore rotations, people can use the wrong consumables and you'll still drop him just fine because you have loads of extra DPS and extra HP buffers on people so that one accidentally interrupted bandage won't mean anything.

Anyone saying that world buffs do not really make that much of a difference probably don't use them that much. We use them every week for Loatheb/Sapph/KT, the two first of which are the two fights in Naxx that benefit the most from having world buffs, and the difference is immense. It's a change in margin of error, sure, but at encounters which are just brute numbers tests rather than about control / skill, the change is far, far too large.

Oh, and as for the "effort" required to get them, what effort? Running around various places for 30 minutes at most before the raid? There's no effort involved there. The gain on the other hand is out of whack.

No movment speed increase either. Will the +50 to all stats still be worth it though?

World buffs are not requierd in any encounter so far in Naxx ( Havent seen 4H / Saphiron / Kel Thuzad )

They just allow you to skip some time ( we wont wait till all rogues get 5-6 bonescyte and X/Y weapon setup and just get world buffs ).

They allow you to be more secure in your kill attempt.

As you get better gear / experience you dont need them ( just check the loatheb thread... ppl droping it withouth world buffs )

As i said..it gives you an edge if you are willing to travel half hour around the world .

And most important... it keeps you from living inside a instance.. is WORLD of warcraft... not INSTANCE of Warcraft.

"Oh, and as for the "effort" required to get them, what effort? Running around various places for 30 minutes at most before the raid? There's no effort involved there. The gain on the other hand is out of whack"

If is so easy to pick them up why do you complain about the world buffs. Is a logistic task : "Can you have all your guild traveling around the world at the same time ?" ... Is there a idiot who decides to go AFK and you wait for him ? Somebody got ganked ? You travel with your eyes open and are more nervous than ever about dying.

Even if you travel as a 40 man group ( wich again is a wonderful sight for newbies and lower-progresion guilds ) a POM > Pyro can take you down.

And it makes a great show for the lower lvls who are watching the uber guild traveling.

I find it annoying too ... dont get me wrong. BUT i understand why they are there... and why they are used in instances. Just try to see the problem from all sides involved into this ( even the low-lvl noobs who get the EPIC fealing of WoW seeing a 40 man epiced out raid traveling on their epic mounts ).


Small side-fact : Friend bribed a guy with 500g to find out when rival guild X is going for hakkar buff and ambushed them with a 15 man squad... killed more than 20. This is what keeps the game interesting.
Was it worth the 500g ??? Doubtly... but it was fun for him... and he did it.

+50 to all stats is more than what it gives now, at least to stamina for most classes. Considering you can pick up 2 Zanzas(use one, pick up another in inv) at the same time, it will continue to be an insanely powerful buff for a long time. I can already picture us running DM in TBC for Mol'dar's Moxie like the idiots we are.

As for the above poster, you apparently misunderstand me. What annoys me is not the task of getting them, because they're easy and fast to get. What annoys me is that I find them completely overpowered and stupid from a game balance / encounter challenge point of view, because they trivialize(yes, they do) certain encounters almost completely. Encounters are designed to be of certain difficulty, and the difficulty of certain bosses is nothing near that designed difficulty when your raid is sporting world buffs. Why should mistakes that normally lead to a certain wipe go completely unnoticed and not affect anything only because you happened to run around the world for a while before coming to the instance? Granted, the two worst examples, Sapphiron and Loatheb, are also two encounters the design of which I like the least of all Naxx bosses, so at the moment world buffs work as a stupid solution for stupid bosses.

Regardless, I'd far rather prefer that world buffs were not a factor in encounter design at all, because as previous posters have pointed out, if you don't account for them, they make content far easier than it's intended to be, and if you do, they will be required every time.

The rest of your arguments I'm not going to even touch.

just got our KT kill, 2nd day of serious tries (before that 3 days with 1-2 hours), 0 world buffs used, about 25 flasks on tanks/mages/priests and when he died, all CR, all ankhs were upa nd only one hunter dead. i am sure we'll wipe hopelessly again next week, but that shows that if everyone just presses the right button for once, world buffs are most certainly NOT necessairy.

He didn't say it was necessary. He said they have a very large impact well beyond any "psychological edge" which is true.

This is only slightly off topic:

Yesterday I was standing outside of SW because I heard a yell that an ony buff was going out. Our BWL farm run was still doing invites, so I had plenty of time. I noticed that our top raiding guild on the server (who were also waiting on the ony buff) had the dire maul tribute buffs. The funny thing is:
they had multiple copies of each dm buff. For example, a mage had 4 of the dm tribute stamina buffs and 4 of the spell crit buffs.
How is this done? Do they really stack, or is it just a pretty icon near your nameplate? I whispered several of them, but they didn't write back.

My guild tried patchwerk a few weeks ago (when we were finishing up our trash-killing quest), but turned away deciding we were too undergeared. If we could stack 4+ stamina buffs on each of the tanks, I think things might be different.

I have a hard time believing your name passes Blizzards naming conventions.

The alt codes are actually valid.

Actually no they are not. You can legitimately report someone to the GMs for a naming violation for having any non-standard English character in their name. I've seen several people forced to do name changes because they had accent marks on some letters.

I'm pretty sure that's actually corruption from one of our database moves. I've seen it in other places. If the poster could clarify what name they want, I can fix that.

Which is technically still against the naming codes on US servers, BUT that has already been discussed with respect to this same character in the official UI forums (as out of place there as here, I'd say). ;)

If you have 3 other tanks with around your quality gear, you don't need DM buffs to handle him. If your tanks can flask and consumable to 9500hp, that's technically sufficient.

Thanks, yes, my name is Süße, but you can change it to Suesse if you'd like. Yes, it did get corrupted after a transfer. I've read the legal terms and all from blizzard... they don't specifically mention anything except "gibberish," regardless they can choose to declare anything as illegal and non-english characters are one of those things (on US servers). My name on live is now "Suesse." I feel somewhat fat with this new name (4 charcters -> 6 characters), but a priest in my guild tells me "it's just gravity."

Anyhow, can anyone comment on the multiple DM buffs (of the same type)? Is this an exploit? Or, if not, how is it done?

Fixed -- note your login info will also have changed.

As for stacking DM buffs, I have no idea. If that's possible it's obviously unintended.

I've seen the stacking DM buffs before when I cleared it back to back a few months ago. I remember thinking "They seriously can't allow this" and then I ported out to Org and noticed that I was left with just 1 application of each buff. I know it wasn't the first buff fading because the runs were only 45 minutes or so. Maybe some other change reversed that since then.

If you run DM once, you get access to the buffs. If you ask for a buff a second time it renews the buff.
Are you suggesting that a second run will give you a second set of buffs? Does it also renew the earlier buff timer? Or would you have to speed run the instance.