rogue skill in raiding - Page 3

Mem · 11/16/06, 6:33 AM

Speaking from personal experience I feel that in PVE you indeed can transfer the control of your own char to any other skilled folk without a large loss of performance..that is unless you play a key role in the encounter (MC priest, Gurg mentioned Gluth kiting, MTing encounters where you have to move a lot). Patchwerk is a very extreme example, where as a dps class you keep spamming your 3 buttons (or less), timing your cooldowns and consumables. Adjusting to a healer role as a dps player might take a bit longer...but after some trash pulls you will be able to put up a solid performance imho.
You lack of familiarization becomes much more apparent in PVP. Though even there I manage to collect scores of kills against PUGs with the fire mage of a friend of mine due to the combination of his incredible gear, his enormous range and smart positioning (aka snipering). Nevertheless I feel pretty gimp when being jumped by a melee or a skilled opponent in a 1:1 situation in general. One reason for this is however that I don't want to change my friends key bindings, I am pretty sure I could double my performance I were to remap his bindings :D

panos · 11/16/06, 6:51 AM

heh i like to say, i can explain to a new guy how rogue dps works in under 5 mins and he ll perform just as good as me On most bosses ( not in and out fights, this would take 10 mins), gg proof:P

Then again could be worse, like 10 secs needed to explain mage dps.

Natrozim · 11/16/06, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Emth

half of the player 'skill' is employed before the fight, it's the micromanaging you've done in gear setup, enchants, talent build etc.

Definitely, knowing your build and spending your dkp well to get the best gear for your build/class first is imo one of the biggest "skill" difference thing between 2 players of the same progression (aka in same guild).

It might sound weird but I find back when I played my warlock it was the a bit more "skilled" dps class, on my rogue its so easy.. almost everyone is combat, keeps S&D up so differences are mostly just gear. On my warlock however back in Mc I would get top 1-3 spot, BWL/AQ40 usually I was 7-9th (sometimes depends on trash, if it was counted and behind rogues and 1-2 mage on some fights). Warlocks with the same/better gear would be way lower then me, I also was usually the one using CoS.

I never played a healer over 40 but then I played a friend's geared healer and it wasn't too hard, at least in BWL and a bit of AQ40 (dint want to risk twin emps :P). It's just seeing bars move and applying the correct heal =/ not too hard when theory craft told me what each of his heal's healed for with his gear and RDX telling me the health missing and also putting the ones missing more on top...

A hunter shot rotation always seemed fun and "skilled" though, maybe its more simple in practise then it sounds, never played one in raids

probiscus · 11/16/06, 12:28 PM

Relatively on-topic: Was a funny MC run the other night. Took my warlock (full felheart, maybe +/-200 damage gear) - ended up out DPSing the warlock class leader, who has T2+ DPS gear w/ maybe 600 +damage. We're both SM ruin. Simple things like NOT wasting a GCD on siphon life (30 sec mana heavy debuff on a mob that dies in 10 sec) on single pull trash, as a concept, is apparenly beyond some people.

This is actually one of the reasons I'm really excited for the smaller (5-25 man content) raids that tBC will offer, combined with the warlock class changes. I'm of the opinion that "good players" will be easier to spot as Blizz adds more and more layers of complexity to the classes and to encounters.

Lumi · 11/16/06, 1:08 PM

Of all the dps classes, rogues probably have the least to pay attention to on most fights ('cept Gothik). For example in our strategy for Gluth, mages are helping the kite some, warlocks help with the AoE, warriors thrown in piercing howls and hunters are doing tranq shot. I haven't seen one version of Gluth where the rogues do anything besides stabbing the dog and killing a loose zombie if the aoe is bad.

Throughout Naxx, most dps classes have some other job to do in different fights. Shooting down Web Wraps, decursing, re-cursing, tranqshot, kiting, AoEs and other fun stuff to watch out for. Of course these things aren't the most challenging things, but its a lot more than rogues do.

Taikero · 11/16/06, 2:30 PM

Having played both a healer and a DPSer, I feel I have a few things to add.

For a healer, 30% is gear, 70% is execution. Everything relies on your reaction to the situation. The good healers are able to recognize a dip in health and adjust to it within a second. Bad ones take longer. I quit my healer because, while intense, raiding is consistently boringly stressful. It's just not fun for me to sit looking at health bars hitting my heal key for hours on end to prevent others from dying. That and after playing a raiding Shadow Priest/PvP Shadow Priest, I found a Priest overall to be a boring class. Boring in raiding, too easy elsewhere.

My draw to a Rogue is simply the math behind class mechanics. Glancing blows, DPS cycles, all of that is very interesting to me. As it was with my Shadow Priest, approximately 25% of my DPS is directly correlated to my attentiveness in the raid. The more proactive I am about picking up the next mob or adjusting to the new boss position, the more damage I end up doing. Also, coming prepared with consumables and appropriate gear for an encounter is easily half the battle.

Healing takes very little skill, more so it takes a willingness to bombard yourself with constant reactions to changing circumstances for hours.

DPSing takes very little skill, only requiring you can change your position according to the situation (Rain of Fire, for instance).

The only hard part is getting everyone to do the salsa when half of them are doing the tango, so to speak.

exog · 11/16/06, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lumi

Of all the dps classes, rogues probably have the least to pay attention to on most fights ('cept Gothik). For example in our strategy for Gluth, mages are helping the kite some, warlocks help with the AoE, warriors thrown in piercing howls and hunters are doing tranq shot. I haven't seen one version of Gluth where the rogues do anything besides stabbing the dog and killing a loose zombie if the aoe is bad.

Throughout Naxx, most dps classes have some other job to do in different fights. Shooting down Web Wraps, decursing, re-cursing, tranqshot, kiting, AoEs and other fun stuff to watch out for. Of course these things aren't the most challenging things, but its a lot more than rogues do.

so what about thaddius, loatheb and patcwerk? Still much easyer for rogues??

also on gluth, at least in my ol guild we used to outrange the fears for increased dps, granted its not that hard, but it is a game for kids afterall not brain surgery.

So claiming that other dps classes do a "lot more" than rogues on "most" encounters just indicates that you dont know much about what ur talking about.

♦ Praetorian · 11/16/06, 3:10 PM

No, a page later, this thread is still pretty bad!