New Skills in WoW 1.13

oldmandennis · 11/15/06, 2:50 PM

The other test relm thread has fallen to pieces, so I'll ask the question in a new one:

The Patchnotes say "New Abilities for all classes". Which ones are they?

• frmorrison · 11/15/06, 2:55 PM

All those crazy 41-pointers are "new abilities", also you could consider the 30-40 talents new ablities.

Snow · 11/15/06, 2:59 PM

Any abilities on the webpage gained before 60, also. Righteous Defense, for instance.

TL-Seria · 11/15/06, 3:12 PM

Can some warrior on test check for Stance Mastery?

Anaram · 11/15/06, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by TL-Seria

Can some warrior on test check for Stance Mastery?

Would make exceptionally little sense not to give that while still giving new talent tree where tactical mastery is only 3/3 talent...

koaschten · 11/15/06, 3:19 PM

why check when its confirmed the new talent trees will be implemented aswell as all buyable stuff up to lvl60

missiletoad · 11/15/06, 3:34 PM

For the compilation-impaired, not including current skills with functionality changes:

Druid
Force of Nature (talent - Balance)
Tree of Life (talent - Restoration)
Mangle (talent - Feral)

Hunter
Readiness (talent - Survival)
Silencing Shot (talent - Marksmanship)

Mage
Slow (talent - Arcane)
Dragon's Breath (talent - Fire)
Water Elemental (talent - Frost)

Paladin
Righteous Defense (lvl 14)
Spiritual Attunement (lvl 18)
Consecration (now trainable)
Crusader Strike (talent - Retribution)
Avenger's Shield (talent - Protection)
Divine Illumination (talent - Holy)

Priest
Pain Suppresion (talent - Discipline)
Circle of Healing (talent - Holy)
Vampiric Touch (talent - Shadow)

Rogue
Mutilate (talent - Assassination)
Shadowstep (talent - Subtlety)

Shaman
Totem of Wrath (talent - Elemental)
Shamanistic Rage (talent - Enhancement)
Earth Shield (talent - Restoration)

Warlock
Unstable Affliction (talent - Affliction)
Felguard (talent - Demonology)
Shadowfury (talent - Destruction)

Warrior
Stance Mastery (lvl 20)
Rampage (talent - Fury)
Devastate (talent - Protection)

It's all paladins really, minus the talent-related rage retention change on warriors and every class' new talents. Some of the functionality changes to current skills are pretty significant however.

• frmorrison · 11/15/06, 3:48 PM

To be complete:

You can add the Rogue ability Shadowstep, or if the PTR build is a 3-week TBC build, then Cloak of Shadows (in the current TBC build you learn it around level 65, but it used to be the 41 pointer).

Also Hunters have The Beast Within (when you buff you pet with Beast Wrath, it buffs you too).

Kody · 11/15/06, 4:22 PM

Very few of the abilities with added functionality will be available. They didn't retroactively add this stuff to old abilities - it's mostly post-60 abilities that get it. However, Seal of Justice Rank 2 has it, and it's available at level 48. Rogues get Evasion Rank 2 which has the 50% ranged attack avoidance at I believe 50.

oldmandennis · 11/16/06, 1:43 AM

Aww, the part in the patch notes where they said every class got new abilities turns out to be a cruel cruel tease. I was really hoping for our hunters sake that steady shot would be moved up. The rest of the stuff seems like fun, but that one really seemed necessary.

calisti · 11/16/06, 1:50 AM

Out of curiosity, have any warlocks noticed if Corruption rank 7 is trainable on the PTR? I know it's trainable at level 60 on the closed beta server, but I can't test it on the PTR because I'm in the beta.

Zurai · 11/16/06, 2:04 AM

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Aww, the part in the patch notes where they said every class got new abilities turns out to be a cruel cruel tease. I was really hoping for our hunters sake that steady shot would be moved up. The rest of the stuff seems like fun, but that one really seemed necessary.

Steady Shot isn't even close to neccesary. Hunters will do similar "special shot" damage and signifigantly higher autoshot damage after 2.01, just by replacing aimed shot with arcane shot in their rotation. It won't even cost them any extra mana - it's actually 5 mana cheaper.

Kinv · 11/16/06, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Aww, the part in the patch notes where they said every class got new abilities turns out to be a cruel cruel tease. I was really hoping for our hunters sake that steady shot would be moved up. The rest of the stuff seems like fun, but that one really seemed necessary.

Steady Shot isn't even close to neccesary. Hunters will do similar "special shot" damage and signifigantly higher autoshot damage after 2.01, just by replacing aimed shot with arcane shot in their rotation. It won't even cost them any extra mana - it's actually 5 mana cheaper.

and then u figure in the 50% mana cost to Multi shot change.

Northerner · 11/16/06, 3:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kinv

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by oldmandennis

Aww, the part in the patch notes where they said every class got new abilities turns out to be a cruel cruel tease. I was really hoping for our hunters sake that steady shot would be moved up. The rest of the stuff seems like fun, but that one really seemed necessary.

Steady Shot isn't even close to neccesary. Hunters will do similar "special shot" damage and signifigantly higher autoshot damage after 2.01, just by replacing aimed shot with arcane shot in their rotation. It won't even cost them any extra mana - it's actually 5 mana cheaper.

and then u figure in the 50% mana cost to Multi shot change.

Which can be downranked, as some hunters already do. Hunters really shouldn't be impacted negatively by the changes, although of course this whole patch is going to be a bit of a crapshoot when it hits live.

Vwtifuljoe · 11/16/06, 3:58 AM

pre-60 - who cares about a shot rotation? im probably solo lvling.

post-60 - who cares about a shot rotation? im probably solo lvling.

so when do i care about a shot rotation? when im raiding.

on a side note -
1.12 - Multishot, rank 5, 207 mana, additional 170-173 damage

1.13- Multishot, rank 5, 270 mana, additional 150 damage

and aimed shot got stabbed in its poor little heart, fyi

Lactose · 11/16/06, 4:43 AM

Originally Posted by Vwtifuljoe

on a side note -
1.12 - Multishot, rank 5, 207 mana, additional 170-173 damage

1.13- Multishot, rank 5, 270 mana, additional 150 damage

Remember talents next time ;)
There's been no damage component change on Multi-Shot.

Caradoc · 11/16/06, 4:50 AM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Steady Shot isn't even close to neccesary. Hunters will do similar "special shot" damage and signifigantly higher autoshot damage after 2.01, just by replacing aimed shot with arcane shot in their rotation. It won't even cost them any extra mana - it's actually 5 mana cheaper.

Do you have data to support this statement?

As far as I have read, Hunter DPS actually increases in the expansion, but all that information comes from hunters using Steady Shot in their raid rotations.

I am concerned that without it hunter DPS will fall noticeably.

Arcane shot (2.0) = RAP*0.2+200 ever 5 seconds
Aimed shot (1.12) = 600+RAP/14*(2.8+wpn spd) every 9 seconds

For my terrible 1200 AP and spd 3.2 xbow, that works out as:

Arcane shot (2.0) = 88DPS
Aimed shot (1.12) = 185DPS

on paper that looks like a huge difference

Edit - forgot there should be some armour mitigation on Aimed damage, but I don't see that making 100DPS difference to Aimed shot damage.

Zurai · 11/16/06, 4:57 AM

Originally Posted by Kinv

and then u figure in the 50% mana cost to Multi shot change.

1.12: 230 mana for multishot, 310 mana for aimed shot. Total: 540 mana
2.01: 345 mana for multishot, 190 mana for arcane shot. Total: 535 mana

PLEASE try not to post stupid-ass one liners that are completely irrelevant and incorrect.

Zurai · 11/16/06, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by Caradoc

Do you have data to support this statement?

As far as I have read, Hunter DPS actually increases in the expansion, but all that information comes from hunters using Steady Shot in their raid rotations.

I am concerned that without it hunter DPS will fall noticeably.

Arcane shot (2.0) = RAP*0.2+200 ever 5 seconds
Aimed shot (1.12) = 600+RAP/14*(2.8+wpn spd) every 9 seconds

For my terrible 1200 AP and spd 3.2 xbow, that works out as:

Arcane shot (2.0) = 88DPS
Aimed shot (1.12) = 185DPS

on paper that looks like a huge difference

New Arcane: Instant cast, 20% of RAP + 220, ignores armor.
Old Aimed: damage + 600, mitigated by armor.

I typically end up at around 1500 RAP with moderate raid buffs. That's 1200 base damage with aimed shot and ash, and 520 with arcane shot and any weapon. But how often do you actually see 1200 average damage off an aimed shot? I typically see 700-800 thanks to armor. Also, arcane shot is affected by Curse of Shadows, so that's an extra 15% for ~600 damage. Not that much less.

The reason I say "mostly the same" is that Multishot gets more damage with the same weapon. Weapons are getting a ~20-25% damage boost, and even if you were using thorium ammo before you'll get 4.5 extra DPS from ammo. With ash, that's about a 100 damage boost right there, leaving us approximately even on the shot rotation. A liiiiitle less damage, yes, but it won't be enough of a difference to break the class.

Then we have the extra autoshot damage from ranged weapons and ammo, and the greatly improved pet DPS.

TL-Seria · 11/16/06, 5:45 AM

Originally Posted by Anaram

Originally Posted by TL-Seria

Can some warrior on test check for Stance Mastery?

Would make exceptionally little sense not to give that while still giving new talent tree where tactical mastery is only 3/3 talent...

about as much when implementing the steady shot hunter talent trees / mechanics without giving them steady shot :-)

hamchook · 11/16/06, 8:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by Kinv

and then u figure in the 50% mana cost to Multi shot change.

1.12: 230 mana for multishot, 310 mana for aimed shot. Total: 540 mana
2.01: 345 mana for multishot, 190 mana for arcane shot. Total: 535 mana

PLEASE try not to post stupid-ass one liners that are completely irrelevant and incorrect.

Did you take into account that you're charged mana for Arcane shot every 6 seconds, whereas you're charged with mana for Aimed Shot every 9?

Apate · 11/16/06, 11:13 AM

There is no WoW 1.13 :p

Maybe it's a pet peeve, but this is WoW 2.0x coming down the tubes. It's an important distinction because changing the version number is indicative of major mechanics changes and huge changes to the UI.

Zurai · 11/16/06, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by hamchook

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by Kinv

and then u figure in the 50% mana cost to Multi shot change.

1.12: 230 mana for multishot, 310 mana for aimed shot. Total: 540 mana
2.01: 345 mana for multishot, 190 mana for arcane shot. Total: 535 mana

PLEASE try not to post stupid-ass one liners that are completely irrelevant and incorrect.

Did you take into account that you're charged mana for Arcane shot every 6 seconds, whereas you're charged with mana for Aimed Shot every 9?

Did you even freaking read my original post?

JUST REPLACE AIMED IN YOUR ROTATION WITH ARCANE.

One aimed per 10 seconds = one arcane per 10 seconds.

Is that REALLY such a difficult concept for people? Are people THAT desperate to be depressed over the hunter changes?

Kalman · 11/16/06, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Originally Posted by hamchook

Originally Posted by Zurai

1.12: 230 mana for multishot, 310 mana for aimed shot. Total: 540 mana
2.01: 345 mana for multishot, 190 mana for arcane shot. Total: 535 mana

PLEASE try not to post stupid-ass one liners that are completely irrelevant and incorrect.

Did you take into account that you're charged mana for Arcane shot every 6 seconds, whereas you're charged with mana for Aimed Shot every 9?

Did you even freaking read my original post?

JUST REPLACE AIMED IN YOUR ROTATION WITH ARCANE.

One aimed per 10 seconds = one arcane per 10 seconds.

Is that REALLY such a difficult concept for people? Are people THAT desperate to be depressed over the hunter changes?

For that matter, in fights where mana burn *isn't* as much of an issue (whether because it's short enough not to matter or you have a VT priest or whatever), is there an efficient rotation for Arcane Shot that uses the 6s shot rotation, increasing mana per second but also increasing DPS?

Zurai · 11/16/06, 1:22 PM

You don't need a rotation for arcane since it doesn't disrupt autoshot in any fashion. Just shoot it at cooldown. You'll kill your spirit mana regen, but if you're not mana-limited (which is your condition), who cares?