Europeans finally convinced Kalgan to spill, so we have real numbers to work from

Here are the current rage generation formulae (note: these are slightly different than the ones which are on the current public test realms).

The notable changes include an update to offhand rage generation (previously it was not being normalized correctly), and an improvement to rage generation from crits (essentially, crits now generate double the rage the hit would have ordinarily caused). The later change should help ensure that certain specs (ie: sword specialization) don't become clearly superior to crit-enhancing specializations like Axe/Polearm.

For Dealing Damage:
Main Hand Normal Hits: Factor=2.5
Main Hand Crits: Factor=5.0
Off Hand Normal Hits: Factor=1.25
Off Hand Crits: Factor=2.5

Rage Conversion Value (note: this number is derived from other values within the game such as a mob's hit points and a warrior's expected damage value against that mob):

Rage Conversion at level 60: 230.6
Rage Conversion at level 70: 274.7

Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

Pre-Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = (Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5


For Taking Damage (both pre and post expansion):
Rage Gained = (Damage Taken) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 2.5

I'll let the math experts crunch it, bear in mind this isn't the formula on test and BC atm, but what is about to be instituted. They are clearing testing and measuring.

Hey cool, Bliz seems to be putting a lot of work into getting this right



on further inspection, it seems that normalization has been normalized :V

The formula is better expressed as

[The amount of rage you used to generate + (weapon speed * factor)] /2

Hitting normally for exactly the amount needed for the rage conversion with a 3.0 (3.0 is the sweet spot, 2.5*3.0 = 7.5) weapon gives you:
[1* 7.5 + (3.0 * 2.5)] / 2 = (7.5+7.5)/2 = 7.5 rage
Currently it would generate 7.5 rage. This is the benchmark, apparently.

Hitting for half the amount with a 3.0 gives you:
[.5* 7.5 + (3.0 * 2.5)] / 2 = (3.75+7.5)/2 = 5.625 rage
whereas currently it would generate 3.75 rage.

Hitting for double the amount with a 3.0 gives you:
[2* 7.5 + (3.0 * 2.5)] / 2 = (15+7.5)/2 = 11.25 rage
whereas this currently generates 15 rage.

The better your gear, the more of a nerf you'll see from this. The worse your gear the more you gain from this. There isn't a per-level nerf, it's purely based on how hard you are hitting. This will definitely result in more consistent Warrior rage as damage scales up, and won't require so much rage in order to hit the damage cycles. The biggest loser is obviously Execute as there will no longer be as much excess rage generated for over-the-top damage conversion, though with fast weapons you'll probably still be able to hit it every cooldown.

Can the OP post the source for this please?


Nite moogle, the basis for this system is no different than what's currently implemented. The other system was also an average with some constant number that blizzard had deemed worthy. In your examples, you forgot to change the coeffiecents on the weapon speed. If you do, the rage numbers come out to almost the same, which I think is the whole intent of the change.

Had the old system gone through, most warriors would see a nerf for ~2 months and continuing on until they could get much better gear in TBC. The new system softens the nerf at 60 while still implementing normalization to keep warrior generation in check. I think it's a good change. Warrior rage generation will still scale up as before, just half as slow now.

Soruce: Here

Ran a few more numbers, I was right that rage nerf will be smaller at 60, which has me quite happy. One other thing that I noticed, this enourages slow weapons...I thought blizzard was trying to get away from that.

I think rather than encouraging slow weapons, it's more aimed at 2H'ers who suffer the worst from the rage nerf currently on beta.

Well, that's my impression of it anyways. :)

I changed the damage but not the weapon speed to reflect variance in how hard you're hitting, not to compare one weapon to another. What it comes down to is that people with extremely good or extremely bad gear are going to notice some significant differences.

Sorry for the whacked out numbers on the bottom, I did this using a 2.0 weapon so I had to cut the values in half and I just did it in paint since I'd already closed excel and I hadn't saved it. This is calculated using the level 60 numbers, uses no offhand math and is obviously only applicable to white damage.

So the question is when are they going to push this change to the PTRs (are we even getting it in 2.0?)

Damn. That's a pretty heft nerf for pvp. Using your 2H weapon of choice (I used my UTB), try plotting your rage gained against damage done under the new and old formulas. I'll generate a lot less rage per white crit in the expansion. Currently, for instance, I get 33 rage for a 1k crit; in the expansion, I'll get 23 rage for the same crit--that's ~30% less rage, which will definately add-up over time.

The more you rely on big crits to generate rage, the more this normalization will hurt you. These formulas probably explain why dual-wielders don't notice much difference in the beta. I was assuming that Blizzard normalized rage to lower DW warriors' dps. Strangely, it's going to hurt pvp warriors more than it'll hurt dps warriors. Endless rage would definately help close (but not overcome) the gap, but I like fury for pvp.

If I were Blizzard, I would've just lowered the stats on end-game dps warrior gear (so that dps warriors wouldn't destroy everyone on the damage meters) and made rage generated a concave function of damage done (so that pvp warriors wouldn't get a full rage bar on every hit).

http://vanthia.com/ragenorm/

Put up by Terhix of #eu-warriors

Dual wielders probably didn't notice in beta because Kalgan said the offhand isn't currently being normalized correctly.

Here's what I'm working on to see some of the crossover points, etc

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p0KQAIjT4Bdy8wWJr4cOfZA

edit: unfortunately it won't let me upload charts :(

Rage generation should be almost the the same before BC, from Rage= DMG/30 to DMG/ 30,75 at lvl 60

DPS vs RPS at a 25% crit and DWing

RPS BC= DPS / 73,25 + 1,875 * (100 + crit chance %)/100

WHITE DPS RPS
0 2,34
48 3
121 4
194 5
560 10
927 15
1293 20

This is a bigger nerf to 2handers than anything. The forumla takes weapon speed into account but not whether the weapon is a 1hander or a 2hander. With 2handers needing slightly higher base DPS for proper damage balance, the 2handers will hit the diminishing returns on damage over the normalized level much more quickly. For example:

The term "neutral value" will be used to define the amount of rage generated from a blow that will receive neither a benefit or reduction from the new formula. i.e.

The neutral value for a 2.7 speed 1-hander at level 60 is 6.75 rage or 207.54 damage or 76.86 combined DPS (I don't know how fractions are rounded by the system so we'll just leave them for the sake of crunching numbers)

The neutral value for a 3.7 speed 2-hander at level 60 is 9.25 rage or 284.4 damage or 76.86 combined DPS

So at level 60 if your actual DPS from white damage hits goes over 76.86 with either a 1hander or a 2hander you will see your rage generation drop.

I am going to test some numbers on typical mitigation for level 60 MOBs, but working from memory, hamstring hits for around 28 damage on an unsundered MOB, or 38% mitigation. So roughly 124 DPS on the character sheet hits for 76.8 DPS on an unsundered MOB.

So if you have 1,000 unbuffed attack power, as soon as your weapon goes over 52 DPS you will start seeing a nerf in rage.

For the higher end raider with at least 1,300 self buffed attack power, you see the nerf with any weapon over 31 DPS...

If anyone wants I'll post more of the math behind this later when I'm not at work, but the numbers are right.

One of our Euro friends put together a graph showing rage gen over different speeds at lv70. The steep gradiant is lv70 without normalisation.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...lised70lvl.jpg

Things I'm not sure on yet:
1) is the rage normalisation based on damage before or after armor normalisation?
2) how does a regular day to day warrior in average lv70 gear look vs the current lv60. Most of the data supplied so far is still from the BC equivilent of blue/green geared pre-60 wars.

If Krigare's calculations are accurate, then rage generation vs the sort of mitigation we face in pvp seems bearable

So what does this mean with 2h fury rage generation in terms of rage per X amount of time? I'm not sure if I follow the formula correctly but does it mean that when flurry procs, my rage generation over time stays the same?

Take a 3.40 sword for example that becomes 2.615 when flurry procs. Am I right to think that I would generate no more rage then if I didn't have flurry?

Flurry doesn't change your weapon speed for calculations sake, just for attack speed sake. So flurry will still cause you to generate more rage over time when it is active.

But 2hand Fury is going to get a massive kick to the nuts because the normalization hits 2handers the hardest, and a fury build means you can't get Endless Rage to counteract it.

I'm 2hand Fury right now, but I'm already building up my +hit gear.

Yeah my warrior is 2H fury as well and I'm toying with endless rage builds as my DW fury gear is nowhere near as good as my 2H gear. It's kinda sad that an entire play style has been rendered obsolete.

I can't wait to see comparisons between Arms+Endless Rage vs. 2H Fury vs. DW Fury builds using comparable gear. It would seem that 41/x/x+3 will be the definite cookie cutter build for Mr. average Joe warrior (MS+TUF anyone?) That is unless there is an abundance of DW fury gear in BC which would make gearing up for it much easier for the non hardcore raiders.

Throw endless rage in there please!

The PTR is version 2.0.1, and apparently this is the version number that's going to be pushed to live in a few weeks. The BC Beta is 2.0.2, which is going to be pushed to live on the expansion's release date.

At least that's what Slouken said.

A note, I seriously doubt flurry will lower your rage per hit (as this page's formula attempts to imply). So far, anything in the game that's based on weapon speed (such as attack power added to white damage) is based on the base weapon speed before haste modifiers. The speed after haste modifiers is generally referred to as swing speed.

I could be mistaken, though, as I'm just basing this on past history.