This subject came up when we where discussing Hunter changes in 2.0 and twins. One of our hunters are using multishot on them and claims that it works just fine because you can Feign Death straight away and since you are at around 40 yards range from the bugs you might hit it won't get resisted.

He claims that the further away you are standing from a mob the less is the risk of fd will be reisisted.

I have a hard time acknowledging that since it just doesn't feel right. On Broodlord for example you can have stupid amounts of resists and you are standing on max range there.

So, anyone with more brains than me have a theory on this?

I don't know anything about it, but I do know that those bugs proximity aggro everything in their path once they're tagged. So if it does resist -- gg.

Again, it is purely quantitative analysis, but I did lots of testing on this whilst wiping on Nefarian and it did seem that during a phase 1 wipe, if i went to the back of the room and feigned away from all the mobs, it almost always succeeded, whereas if i was near a huge pack of dragonkin, it almost always failed, so make of that what you will, but extensive testing on the subject could get costly :)

As far as I am aware it works like this:

Currently when attempting to FD you make checks against every mob in range who is aware of you. If you win against every mob you FD, if one of the mobs resists then your FD is resisted by all.

Thats probably why FD works so well on Patchwerk wipes. Our hunters (me included ;) )always run back where the 1st group with the Living Monstrosity was and FD there. Never had a single resist back there.

Really helps in wipe recovery time (less people to rez, some hunters have jumper cables etc).

Read ya, Phil

Anyone got an idea what the definitive range is?
Would help very much as we're due to start on Patchwerk fairly soon.

In regards to the OP - your guild hunter should really ditch Multishot for the twins, as mentioned in the other thread and from experience, a bug train is one of the biggest factors causing wipes on the emps, so great care should be taken, especially considering the house of cards nature of the entire fight.

Oh, and as said above, even if he does FD after hitting a bug, they will just run straight to the nearest healer, they won't reset.

Its still a really bad idea, if someone were to throws u a heal, gives you a temporary buff (BS) or another hunter in your group uses howl, then the bug will not reset. Basically to do so is being slack with regards to your guilds progress not that I want to insult you or anything. :zoid:

dont get me wrong, i dont spam multishot whenever it's ready on twins. i just shoot it when he has exploded most of them, and then once or twice in a kill they spawn at the same time as my multishot is in the air, and i pretty much fd before it lands. we've killed twin emps way too many times now so i dont see any problem doing it. besides, it's one of the few fights i win damage :)

I do the same, I use multishot when it looks clean on bugs. Incase they spawn the second I shoot i just run straight to the stair and they get AoEd in a few seconds by our bored casters that have nothing better to do anyway. The question is if the extra dps from multishot is worth it if you have to run to the stairs. But it's rare enough that I do it anyways.

OT: Has he successfully feigned before his projectiles hit to avoid aggro from bugs? The most logical thing to happen is that they would get pissed at the closest player and then move to whoever got the highest threat. I guess I'll have to try it sometime to find out for sure.

I've always been under the impression that you just suffer a small penalty if in melee range. I could be wrong.

think they will always aggro, but aslong as you FD at once, the chance for someone to land a heal on you or whatever is small, and they dont aggro others.

I'm still waiting for some shot with equal damage as multishot, only hitting single target ;<

I always believed that it checks for every mob in range, what that range now is, if one resist all resist. Would be nice to know that range.

Ive told him several times, but he likes to do it and we are farming them. Guess that when he gets his first resist he will have to stop.

Only problem with the theory of in range mobs is that there are tons of bugs around you, will they also count? On Broodlord fight you have the whole supression room in range and even if you are not in combat with them you still get resists fairly often, or at least it feels like it :)

Improved FD helps a LOT in areas like the supression rooms as it lowers your chance to resist to zero for the small whelps(lvl 60) and 1% for the warders(61) - of course this doesn't bear out in RL as there is always some token chance to resist on every mob which has never semed to be disclosed or acknowledged by Blizzard as far as i know, and with a huge mob chain that multiplies quite nastily.
I would love to know what the range on it is though, perhaps a test with a warrior spamming dem shout against a big pile of mobs that can hardly touch him(marauders in sili perhaps) and checking for FD resists at various ranges might work - would take a VERY long time of testing though to get any worthwile data :(

The way I always thought it to work was if you were on their aggro list they got a chance to resist your FD.

BUT...there's always those times where no one in the raid group is in combat, I'm in the entrance of the lab in BWL, nothing is aggro'd, we're just buffing, I FD and BAM! Resist.

I always wondered if there was sort of a second list like a: I am not aggroing you but i see you lala!

I try not to give too much credit to ranged modifiers for FD but I notice it too. Although moving OOR on PW to FD is just so some slackjawed rogue doesn't try to get me HS'd while FD'd.

It can't hurt to get extra ranged for it if possible, so better safe than sorry.

And as for Broodlord, whatever is up with the room, or him or whatever, I've had more FD resists in that area than anywhere else in game. It helps if you have the raid in the corner of the cubby instead of against the gate, because it appears you have an FD check against every mob in the lab as well. Maybe switch up your raid group to go to the cubby and test it there if you notice alot of FD. (I did)

You can actually reset the bug after it aggroes you, given that nobody else heals or buffs you. I've had it happen - you just need to be quick on FD.

Honestly, though, as people have said, don't Multi on Emps unless all the bugs are gone in the area. The extra multi is not worth the wipe. If you can't convince your hunter of that, just tell him he gets to cover all repair and consumable costs if he causes a wipe-causing aggro train. People tend to get more cautious after that one.

If you feign before the multi lands, the bugs never aggro on anything; further, you're not gonna get hit with a temp buff like howl or BS because you're gonna be way out of range, and why on earth would you get a heal - hunters take no damage at all in thef ight. Non-aggressive mobs that are not in combat never resist feign. There's no reason not to use multishot.