Name some. I'd be really interested to know what encounter you would ever want a healer to die. Even if it is a paladin.

Remember that Threat modifiers all multiply, so this only brings you up to 80% of normal healing threat (about equal to a healer that has subtlety/silent resolve).
1 Healing Done * .5 (modifier for healing others) * .5 (paladin modifier) * 1.6 (Righteous Fury) = .4 threat
1 * .5 * .8 (talent) = .4 threat

BoS/TA is the only thing that would cause a regular healer to cause less threat.

I think his point was that if anyone is going to get healing aggro, it may as well be a paladin in Plate instead of a Priest in cloth or Druid in cloth equivalent (gg inner fire)

Well you wouldn't want them to die, but if you had to choose between the Paladin with 7.5k armor versus the Priest with 2k armor (If he remembered Inner Fire) getting aggro, I know which one I'd prefer.

Ah that makes alot more sense I guess. I mis read it as dying.

Boevis and Chicken both stated it better than I did. (Thanks.) :)

To be fair, he didn't want the healer to die, but he wanted them to get aggro. We use this on horde (no BoS) all the time on encounters with many new spawns. Priests/Druids generally have points in Subtelty, while the Shamans have none, so any lose adds will charge them instead. Also trash with lots of tanking involved (double tanking pre-C'thun Trash, Tanking Faerlina Trash), shaman can grab aggro with earth shock and just healing.

On live, I keep RF on all the time for just this situation. You don't need a taunt to out-aggro healing, especially if you've been healing; usually one JoR and it's on you. The taunt helps solidify this, I suppose, but I view it as more of an aid for grabbing off an overzealous mage than an unfortunate priest.

Talented, Righteous Fury is 1.9x threat. .25 * 1.9 = .475, still slightly lower than untalented healing from other classes, but far higher than talent + BoSalv healing from them (.5 * .8 * .7 = .28).

Edit: Also, yes, mobs aggroing on a Paladin is better than the same mobs aggroing on a priest. I loathe Paladins that cast Salvation on themselves.

It might be a good tactic to get used to even if it's not really a threat management issue, since if there's a Retribution paladin in the group, he'll be the one maintaining JotC anyway.

Does anyone know if Venegeance stacks between multiple pallies like Ignite/Deadly Poison?
If so Alliance Pallies have a big edge with a helper.

Prot Pally tank with:
Imp RF lots of extra holy agro
+10% 1h damage (includes seals holy damage)
Holy Shield
Imp SoR

Ret Pally (in his group)
Sanc Aura giving +10% holy
Imp Cru


Ret pally leads with Judge Cru and waits
Prot Pally follows with JoR and then starts Vengeance rolling
Prot Pally takes Vengeance as well to help stack to 5 (credited to Prot pally) and keep it rolling
As soon as both Pallies get it to 5, Prot Pally Judges and goes SoR
Ret Pally maintains Vengeance stack and JoCru

The Prot Pally is getting credit for the rolling Venegeance, and at the same time nonstop SoR.

I suspect this will rapidly cause Blizz to split Venegeance to individual stacks, as they fixed Ignite.

Last night we had a Paladin on Gothik Live. I told him to click off Salv and heal away. He wound up getting beaten to death by Trainees while all 6 Priests lived. Probably saved the raid.

To my knowledge yes, this is possible.

Regarding Oaken's post: The reason this could be an Alliance-v-Horde issue is because Seal of Vengeance is Alliance-only.

As I Understand it, Righteous Defense will put you at the top of the agro list of up to 3 mobs attacking another char.

Does this last for any period of time like taunt, growl or challenging shout? Or is it simply snap agro now you need to keep up with any threat on the mob?

If you're talking about maximising agro - it might be worth a hunter pulling with aimed shot and distracting shot without salvation then the pala using Righteous Defense?

Misdirection.

Growl and tautn are permanent, challenging shout (and roar) are temporary. Can't comment for certain, but Righteous defense has seemed permanent from my limited experience with it in beta (as a bear tank dealing with paladins using such :p)
It may not be the case, but I haven't had a chance to test it in depth.

Oops, sorry my mind is on pre-70, well pre-expansion in fact. Yeah Misdirection looks quality.

With improved righteous fury I'd definetly keep it up all the time.

Howdy, new members of the tanking group!

Just wanted to drop in and give some more anecdotal feedback. Don't let me distract you from your theorycrafting (will make your transition to this role faster and better understood), but allow me to share some testing results:

I was enjoying the new frost tree (went 51 points!) in Silithus and found a paladin out there goofing off with Crusader Strike. We thought it might be interesting to test tanking on the Hive Regal elites (since they have 20k health and a knockback attack that seems to shed aggro). Now, we started out the old fashioned way. I had BoS (and the 10% threat reduction talent), he had RF on (not improved) and would start by judging righteousness, laying consecrate, and THEN I would start on the frostbolts. I do roughly 550 dps with them - mixture of MC/BWL level stuff, so nothing crazy. He had basically no tanking gear at all (shield was the Ragnaros mana/5 item) so just used what he had on for trying out CS.

Anyway, it went really well. He would get a knockback and the bug would charge me, only to be righteously defended (sounds funny, but I like it), and the bug would be his for the rest of the time.

We started to really push the edge a bit by me being a "bad" mage and just leading with frostbolts before he reached the mob. Nope, he held aggro just fine. Then I turned off BoS - he still kept aggro. I had to resort to dirty tricks (FN+Trinket+ShatterFB right after a knockback when taunt was on cooldown) to actually grab the aggro and pretend to be in danger. Any normal sequence of "fire and forget" style frostbolting (even paying no attention to crit streaks) posed no aggro challenge whatsoever - and this was a CS Retadin. Not a HolyShield, high mitigation, Improved-RF Tankadin.

Made me really happy to see, so I wanted to pass along the encouragement. I look forward to working with you guys in your new capacity soon.

Fankriss,Noth, spider trash, even Tech. packs in BWL, I could just stand their and heal but for something like say the tech packs its much more fun to wear +300 spell damage and zhc and run loops while I consencrate and cleanse. Pretty much anything where if I get aggro I wont die (Quickly) but a mage would.