Are people leaving the tanks in to take Blistering Cold, in order to keep Sindragosa stationary for the fight? I recognize that in terms of actual damage done, it's on par with a single Frost Breath, but the difference is that for Frost Breaths, healers are already standing still and have heals prepped, whereas after Blistering Cold, the healers will still be running back into position for a few seconds. Last night we were having our tank running out for them to eliminate any risk dying to subsequent melee damage, which was working fine for phase 1, but Sindragosa moving around every time was making proper Ice Tomb positioning very difficult.
We've been allowing the tanks to take the Blistering Cold hit. It's really not that bad, and like you say, keeping her as stationary as possible does have value. That said, after the majority of blistering cold casts she decides to walk forward 5-10 yards for whatever reason and step on the tank's face. Normally it isn't too bad, I just back up a bit and keep going, but there were times when she moved enough to stand on top of me and ended up spinning around trying to target me. I've tried standing farther into her hit box to begin with as well as farther away from her, but so far nothing has consistently stopped her from doing it. There have definitely been times where she hasn't repositioned, which indicates either there is (hopefully) some magic correct distance where she won't do it, or possibly it's just random. I just haven't been able to repeat the event with any consistency.
The 2 dragons became bugged for us also. We had severe server lag caused by a group of German players from the Bluddurst server who were spamming all channels. This meant that our attempts were interrupted and we decided to go on the other remaining bosses that did not have the shared attempts.
On returning, the 2 dragons were flying in the air but would not land. As it was late in the night, we decided to attempt to dps them. We switched most people to ranged dps and we slowly but surely managed to dps them down, taking off 7% of their health each time that they past.
So if this bug occurs, there's an alternative to dps them down within a few minutes to get Sindragosa to repop.
Something to add to this. On our first clear we killed the 2 handler packs, one dragon then explained the fight in detail before killing the second dragon.
On respawns we managed to kill the first dragon using the slow whittle him down method (since we killed the handlers too soon) and Sindragosa spawned IMMEDIATELY (since the second dragon hadn't respawned). During the next few attempts the second dragon DID respawn but Sindragosa stayed spawned as well. The second dragon did not add when we continued to pull Sindragosa though.
Basically its just if you happen to kill one dragon with the other one not spawned yet, be ready for Sindragosa to spawn and agro immediately.
Is it posible to los Unchained Magic debuff? I mean Sindragosa casts it every 30 sec or so and if i stand behined the ice, i still can get Unchained Magic?
We've been allowing the tanks to take the Blistering Cold hit. It's really not that bad, and like you say, keeping her as stationary as possible does have value. That said, after the majority of blistering cold casts she decides to walk forward 5-10 yards for whatever reason and step on the tank's face. Normally it isn't too bad, I just back up a bit and keep going, but there were times when she moved enough to stand on top of me and ended up spinning around trying to target me. I've tried standing farther into her hit box to begin with as well as farther away from her, but so far nothing has consistently stopped her from doing it. There have definitely been times where she hasn't repositioned, which indicates either there is (hopefully) some magic correct distance where she won't do it, or possibly it's just random. I just haven't been able to repeat the event with any consistency.
Preventing this behavior is as simple as stepping forward a bit during the cast and then alternating your forward and backward keys (as in running forward and backwards repeatedly). This has had a 100% success rate for me. Keep doing this for about a second after the cast has finished.
Some other mechanic tidbits that we've noticed in the 10man:
- The caster debuff seems to ALWAYS hit 1 healer and 1 DPS. Originally we went with 3 melee, 1 hunter, 1 warlock, and 3 healers (I'm the warlock). I got hit by the caster debuff every single time, without a doubt. The healer debuff *seemed* random in terms of which of the 3 healers got it. However, every single time the debuff went out, I would get it along with 1 healer. When we brought in a shadow priest in exchange for one of the melee, the shadow priest and I alternated having it.
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I can confirm this. When we did it on Saturday with 2 healers and 1 caster dps (shadowpriest), the shadowpriest got the debuff every time.
When we did it on Monday, the shadowpriest had respecced to disc (i.e. 3 healers and no caster dps) and only one person got hit by unchained magic at a time.
I just checked the 21 full 6-victim Unchained Magics from our 25 attempts and kill this week and can confirm -- every single time, three healers, three dps. Out of 6 healer and 7 eligible DPS, 3 healers and 3 dps were chosen every time. There are 1716 ways to pick 6 people from 13 people; exactly 700 of those are 3 healers and 3dps, or roughly 41%. Twenty one independent choices mean the chance of this is 6.64042516 × 10-9, which is pretty much zero.
Sindragosa's Mystic Buffet will now pulse every 6 six seconds, up from 5 seconds. In the normal 10 player encounter the debuff increase has also been slightly reduced.
A note unrelated to the encounter, but to reaching it.
After failing to heal Valithria one night, when we came back the next day we noticed the elevator to Sindragosa was active. We could go down to the room with the packs of whelps and handlers and the two Frost Wyrms. We didn't actually try to see if we could pull Sindragosa, but I reckon you can.
Unsure as to what triggers it, but figure it's a soft reset after clearing the trash before Valithria which gives a Frost Emblem.
The spider room before Sindragosa activates the teleporter.
He's not referring to the teleporter. Sindragosa's room has three exits: one from the spider room you came in through, one is the teleporter to the left as you come into her room, and finally an elevator in the position to the right that mirrors where the teleporter is. The elevator leads to the initially-closed gate you see in the room with the Val'kyr mini-boss before Valithria. Instead of hanging a right into Valithria's room, you can go straight to the elevator that takes you directly to Sindragosa. It sounds like after the soft reset after killing the Val'kyr, the gate was opened despite Valithria still being alive. Definitely a bug, but a potentially useful one if it's repeatable.
There's a problem with using that elevator without clearing the spider room though. While you can essentially skip the spider room by doing this, you won't be able to teleport directly to Sindragosas room after a wipe. You can use the teleporter down there to teleport anywhere in the instance, but you won't have the option to teleport there without clearing that trash first.
When we killed DW last week we just called the raid and came back the next day. Like mentioned the elevator directly at the end of Frostwing Halls was working so I took it down. Teleporter was active, but it's only a one way trip.
If you did a soft reset after DW I would still suggest clearing the spider room unless you're confident that you can one shot Sindragosa. The time spent running back and waiting for the elevator can add up.
Did anyone else notice Sindragosas Frost Breath ability being a binary resist spell?
I've only even seen the Frost Breath either fully resist or doing full damage which doesnt fit particularly well with the mechanics uncovered in Resistance Mechanics in WotLK
Unfortunately I dont have any combatlog to check, so purely anecdotal for now (I was watching specifically for the frost breath every time it cast so I am rather sure I didnt see any partial resists). The aura was behaving the way I would expect, showing resisted amounts every pulse.
I tried tanking her with both my normal tanking gear and with the crafted frost resistance gear(- the ring)
If its really a binary resists, this lessens the value of using resistance gear, unless you can actually get to a point where you can reliably resist every breath - essentially making it a one-tank encounter.
Did anyone else notice Sindragosas Frost Breath ability being a binary resist spell?
I've only even seen the Frost Breath either fully resist or doing full damage which doesnt fit particularly well with the mechanics uncovered in Resistance Mechanics in WotLK
Unfortunately I dont have any combatlog to check, so purely anecdotal for now (I was watching specifically for the frost breath every time it cast so I am rather sure I didnt see any partial resists). The aura was behaving the way I would expect, showing resisted amounts every pulse.
I tried tanking her with both my normal tanking gear and with the crafted frost resistance gear(- the ring)
If its really a binary resists, this lessens the value of using resistance gear, unless you can actually get to a point where you can reliably resist every breath - essentially making it a one-tank encounter.
You are wrong. Check ANY Sindragosa log and you will find partial resists.
We don't treat this fight like a race in p3. In our 25 man, we put all melee on the frost tombs 100% of the time. Healers and our 3 tanks are in their own channel to co-ordinate so that the tank survives for every frost breath. They reset their stacks whenever they decide it's time to. Ranged are assigned to dps only the boss, they do not help melee on frost tombs so that they aren't killed too fast. Ranged only need to step behind to reset their stacks every 2nd frost tomb, once they're reset they step out and resume on the boss.
This gives everyone a clear single job to focus on and ensures steady damage on the boss. As a raid leader I just have to remind everyone to re-clump in a central spot so that tomb targets have a clear area to go to.
Our sever has gotten the sindragosa raid weekly quest twice in a row for 25. We've missed it both weeks as we were more concerned with just killing her for the first time and then getting our shadowmourne quest done, but the way to do this is to have all dps channel when she's at <1 million health. She should get up to the 75 stacks required pretty quickly, then you finish her off, having 1 person maintain the channel so the buff doesn't fall off. It's easy when everyone does it for a few seconds rather than a couple people doing it all the time.
You are wrong. Check ANY Sindragosa log and you will find partial resists.
For that matter it's the only way you will ever do any Frostmourne quests on a non-tank spec (we did it with a ret spec using a few pieces of frost resist and no external CDs, for example).
Sorry, decided to remove my post. Stuff about the weapon questline should probably stay in the thread for it. I'd get pretty pissy if I came here for Sin tips and found a page of weapon questline tips instead.
We don't treat this fight like a race in p3. In our 25 man, we put all melee on the frost tombs 100% of the time. Healers and our 3 tanks are in their own channel to co-ordinate so that the tank survives for every frost breath. They reset their stacks whenever they decide it's time to. Ranged are assigned to dps only the boss, they do not help melee on frost tombs so that they aren't killed too fast. Ranged only need to step behind to reset their stacks every 2nd frost tomb, once they're reset they step out and resume on the boss.
This gives everyone a clear single job to focus on and ensures steady damage on the boss. As a raid leader I just have to remind everyone to re-clump in a central spot so that tomb targets have a clear area to go to.
Our sever has gotten the sindragosa raid weekly quest twice in a row for 25. We've missed it both weeks as we were more concerned with just killing her for the first time and then getting our shadowmourne quest done, but the way to do this is to have all dps channel when she's at <1 million health. She should get up to the 75 stacks required pretty quickly, then you finish her off, having 1 person maintain the channel so the buff doesn't fall off. It's easy when everyone does it for a few seconds rather than a couple people doing it all the time.
After you reach the required amount of stacks they will disappear and a new debuff will appear that allows you to loot the quest item. Thus, you don't have to keep up the stacks all the way until she dies. You can only channel when the boss is below 20% HP, but it should be quite easy as long as melee channels when resetting debuff, and casters when they get Unleashed Magic. Though, obviously it's still a step up from a normal kill so you might not want to do it for your first kill.
Just another note about Unleashed Magic - it appears to be something that you can line of sight. In our 10man last night, we have every single player get behind every single ice block. I was the only caster DPS, and so throughout phases 1, I would always get targeted (as noticed earlier in this thread).
However, phase 3 helped quite a bit as I often had major gaps between the debuff. We frequently had gaps where no one had the caster debuff at all, probably because all 4 potential targets (me+3 healers) were behind a block when she cast it.
I read a while back about people using a single tank on this in 10-man, and thought we'd give it a try, since it seems a bit of a waste to have an OT who basically contributes nothing for the first 2 phases, no matter how trivial they are. So we spent an evening last night with me in ~420 FR gear solo tanking. My stacks were still getting pretty high though, as p3 goes on for quite a while, so we ended up doing a tank swap to our usual OT who was in DPS gear - she would taunt after getting pulled into the boss, then shield wall when the cast bar was nearly finished, allowing me to quickly run out to the ice block, drop my stack of Buffet then run back and taunt before her shield wall was done. Then she could go back to dps.
This worked ok most of the time, but seems kinda risky to be much of a good plan. Are people who solo tank this ever dropping their stacks? Or do they out-gear the place? We only do 10 man raids, sometimes pugging the first 4 25-man bosses for extra badges, so the raid is mostly in i245 gear, apart from 251s from ICC-10 and crafted pieces. We're usually pretty competent, killed Algalon and did 10-man Insanity a few times before ICC.
With our strat we had a couple of 6-7% wipes, and we are failing due to bad positioning on tombs or stuff like that so it does feel doable, but the whole ghetto-tank swap thing feels a bit wrong.
It's really not a waste to use two tanks. By doing that you're gaining a few thousand DPS by giving up an enormous amount of control on a fight that is not DPS limited at all. The key to beating this fight is controlling phase 3 as efficiently as possible, and unless you have enough DPS to straight burn her down (and you don't), you lose a lot more value than you gain by using one tank.
We did our first kill in 10 man with just one tank and only two healers because for some reason it seemed better at that time and we used two healers for every other boss in 10 man before. I was wearing 4 pieces of FrostR gear and 264/258 tank gear in other slots. I was using a cooldown (Divine Protection, Divine Sacrifice+clickytrinket, Ardent Defender) for every breath/explosion as soon as stacks were too high. Healers were very stressed and a bad combination of Unchained Magic and iceblocks was almost certainly a wipe.
The other 10man groups, after having seen some videos of the fight, did it with 3 healers and two tanks and it was just so much more relaxed, even with many alts in the raid.
This worked ok most of the time, but seems kinda risky to be much of a good plan. Are people who solo tank this ever dropping their stacks? Or do they out-gear the place?
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My guild is 10 man Strict, no 25 man gear from ICC at all. We got Insanity maybe 7 times before ICC came out for reference. We use 1 tank and just burn her out. It does require efficient DPSing, but it is certainly doable. I think we are lucky though that we are running a DK tank for this since she doesn't breath as often in p3 and he was able to self cooldown through the breaths. We had a paladin and Disc ready for PS and Sac as necessary but didn't even end up using them. We do have the tank in 3 piece frost resist. We had melee resetting stacks regularly while dpsing cubes and ranged who got debuffed resetting stacks, but the raid as a whole kept on beating down as much as possible.
02/08/10, 3:23 PM
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