Boss Scaling and new Armor Formula - Page 2

Vodrin · 11/26/06, 8:01 AM

don't forget that warlocks can lower the physical damage from the boss by 5%.

but yeah hopefully it doesn't go into live them doing +15% dps.

Chiquihuite · 11/26/06, 8:05 AM

Solanthious brings up a good point. I remember a higher up at Blizzard(Chris Metzen maybe?) stating that Ragnaros was expected to be a 15-man boss for level 70 players. Granted, a significant portion of his damage is magical, but I think that was supposed to be an example of how current raid bosses will stack up against level 70 players.

As for the mitigation formula itself, that is indeed bad news. Is it possible that they'll have special rules for boss mobs (similar to how Patchwerk can't get crushing blows despite being level 63)?

Boevis · 11/26/06, 8:13 AM

HoT spam is the absolute least interative method of healing, 1 spell every 15 seconds for priests, 1 every 12 and 1 every 21 for druids, lovely. I will not be specced for HoTs, I plan on clinging to the Moonglow/Empowered HT as long as I possibly can.

However, I'm not greatly worried about the change so long as Blizzard applies it correctly. Remember, we are getting significantly more health, and our high rank spells are going to be about 25% better. I would think, and hope, that the new DR scaling is in response to the higher HP so that instead of increasing the base DPS of a boss by 25% in order to do 25% more to the tank, they'll keep the boss's DPS the same and just have this change in the scaling of armor. Not really sure what the difference ends up being in the end, but with more HP, we need to expect bosses to do more damage one way or another. (maybe it's so Demo Shout is more useful?)

Brissa · 11/26/06, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by EmiliaEQ

On the other hand Healing should go up by a LOT with stacking Regens and the modifications to the way Regens work.

So i think it should balance out, however the danger from dmg spikes will a lot worse.

I mean if you can stack 5 regen, Maexna will be trivial.
However on some other bosses, Crushing+Hit = instant dead tank

I doubt stacking HoTs is going to help alot on patchwerk.

Caliane · 11/26/06, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Brissa

Originally Posted by EmiliaEQ

On the other hand Healing should go up by a LOT with stacking Regens and the modifications to the way Regens work.

So i think it should balance out, however the danger from dmg spikes will a lot worse.

I mean if you can stack 5 regen, Maexna will be trivial.
However on some other bosses, Crushing+Hit = instant dead tank

I doubt stacking HoTs is going to help alot on patchwerk.

no, but healing IS going up alot.

% healing talents do not scale now with gear, they will scale in 2.0.
Empowered talents past 31 points in a tree are available just like dps talents are.

Taking a druid.
A raiding 60 resto can get:
15% to rejuv, 10% gift of nature to allhealing
20% to healing to +healing
20% to all heal over time +healing.
As well as the 15% to spirit.

Well ignore treeform, as hot healing isnt that great in current raids.

Thats a pretty hefty gain to healing power.

♦ Praetorian · 11/26/06, 10:39 AM

Wow, from a potentially interesting and informative discussion of armor scaling in TBC to rehashing the same HoT wankfest in under a page. Oh well.

♦ Praetorian · 11/26/06, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by DeeNogger

Originally Posted by EmiliaEQ

I mean if you can stack 5 regen, Maexna will be trivial.
However on some other bosses, Crushing+Hit = instant dead tank

and this is why i think healing has been ruined by wow 2.0 what about constantly refreshing a hot and being helpless to prevent spike damage (the only challange sense hots do all the work for you in mana conservation) sounds fun? gg blizz

Oh, and just to further get in the last word, if you ever feel tempted to include "gg blizz" in one of your posts, you probably shouldn't be making that post at all.

Kaubel · 11/26/06, 10:56 AM

To amend Gurg's last word, I'm going to start banning people who can't be bothered to use capitalization. Yes, I'm talking to you, Dee.

♦ Praetorian · 11/27/06, 5:06 PM

Re-opening per request from the OP since he has some further thoughts to add -- provided the discussion is on the new armor formula, which is interesting, and not "hey guys how will stacked HoTs affect Patchwerk and Maexxna??".

Suesse · 11/27/06, 5:35 PM

Is there another thread where the armor value change has been discussed? A quick thottbot check seems to show that epic gear gets an armor buff (wrath, epic heroism) where non-epic gear does not (blue heroism). Rings and weapons don't receive an armor buff even when epic. Is only the "expected armor value" gettting buffed? So if we had an epic plate item with some itemization value devoted to armor would only its base armor be increased by the patch/beta?

Evert · 11/27/06, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by XP-Dolphin

I ran some quick numbers, taking into account the change in how much armor is on our gear. It seems for tanking types, it will be right around a 10% dps increase on bosses (like MT going from 10k->11k unbuffed armor, or druid going from 15k->17k).

Am I totally retarded that when I see 10k-11k and 15k-17k armor.. I think of more mitagation and not less? Could someone explain using very tiny words?

also thanks for reopening the thread.

Tyvi · 11/27/06, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by Suesse

So if we had an epic plate item with some itemization value devoted to armor would only its base armor be increased by the patch/beta?

Correct. Increasing base armor via item budget is done by a static amount and not a scaling amount, so having the base get increased does not change that (base amount (scaled up in TBC) + item budgeted extra AC (static)).

Steelclad · 11/27/06, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Evert

Originally Posted by XP-Dolphin

I ran some quick numbers, taking into account the change in how much armor is on our gear. It seems for tanking types, it will be right around a 10% dps increase on bosses (like MT going from 10k->11k unbuffed armor, or druid going from 15k->17k).

Am I totally retarded that when I see 10k-11k and 15k-17k armor.. I think of more mitagation and not less? Could someone explain using very tiny words?

also thanks for reopening the thread.

I assume he's just referring to the difference, since tanks rarely decrease in armor over the long-term.

Eudaimonia · 11/27/06, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Evert

Originally Posted by XP-Dolphin

I ran some quick numbers, taking into account the change in how much armor is on our gear. It seems for tanking types, it will be right around a 10% dps increase on bosses (like MT going from 10k->11k unbuffed armor, or druid going from 15k->17k).

Am I totally retarded that when I see 10k-11k and 15k-17k armor.. I think of more mitagation and not less? Could someone explain using very tiny words?

also thanks for reopening the thread.

As I understand from this topic, boss level is being increased for the purposes of armor damage reduction. So while your armor will increase, the amount of damage it reduces will go down because the level of mob beating on you will be higher.

Snow · 11/27/06, 6:26 PM

Though I don't want to derail the thread again with "But it will be made up for by this!" speculation, perhaps some of this has to do with the "Shadow Embrace" talent.

Seems like this hurts bear tanks most, though I don't have the numbers in front of me to crunch what the change in bear form's armor multiplier would be vs. this new change.