hey guys, i come to your forums looking for help. my guild recently downed loatheb and i managed to record it. after viewing it over i came across some very intresting information. i know you guys will be able to assess this video and information that im providing better then anyone else and hopefuly be able to tell me if this is a fluke or maybe im onto something. thankx again

this is a repost from the warrior / rogue forums on wow that i made
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When we first started doing Loatheb someone in the guild braught up the crit overriding misses and how a crit cant miss. we had multiple debates such as hitting Cold Blood and the attack missing thus using that to prove that crits can miss. anyways we threw numbers around and just came at a standstill because there was no way to prove it. Being open minded i decided to put on all my AP gear on for Loatheb and thus gimping my hit. in the end i looked over my recap stats and was shocked to see how incredably low my miss rate was especialy given all the +hit i was missing.

this is the video so you can look for yourself.

FileFront: http://files.filefront.com//;6213861;;/
Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13225804&hl=en

belive me, this is still pretty mind boggeling to me and perhaps im just missing something and would love for someone to prove me wrong.

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TF procs. (just for data reguarding TF has nothing to do with the miss rate)

14 TF crits for 450 = 6300 damage
13 TF none crits of 300 = 3900 damage
6 TF resists = 0 damage

total procs = 33
total damage 10200 (was off by 200 when i stated it earlier)
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Gear in the video

+12 to hit + edgemasters + human.
MH = axe
OH = sword

MH hit = 12.28
OH hit = 12.48
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Misses throughout the video

4 Misses without spore
3 Misses after spore
3 Misses after spore
1 Misses without spore
7 Misses with spore (accidently ate caster spore while bandaging)
*4 out of the 7 occured once Recklessness was used (odd)
2 Misses without spore

Total misses with spore = 13
Total misses without spore = 7
Total misses = 20

This thread is what you're looking for. Special Attacks are now believed to be on a Two-Roll system (first rolls hit or miss/dodge/parry/block, then crit or no crit basically), while regular melee swings are on a one roll system (in which a crit doesn't miss).

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=9330

Just to go with what Drak said, you can easily test this out yourself, go duel someone, take off all your +hit gear, walk up behind them, DW whatever you want, turn on Reck + autoattack and watch every single attack land and crit.

Also one single fight is hardly anything you can discuss. I can show you a screenshot where my backstab crit rate is around 16% lower than expected on Patchwerk.
Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you aren't.

The problem with this is that they don't, you will miss like crazy with recklessness on.

I spent like an hour and a half testing this a month ago and they never missed. Maybe you should check again?

Since your data would scrap the "common knowledge" about hit tables, the burden of evidence should be on your back. But sure, I can post a screenshot when I get home from work.

I've always been wary of the common knowledge about hit tables. The amount of controlled testing behind a lot of it is pretty scant, so it's never really been much more than an informed conjecture (last I heard, we still didn't know whether a Warrior with 300 def could get critted with Shield Block up).

While it's a derail, you wont get crit/crushing with shieldblock up if you got 25% block (and probably + whatever's needed for lvl63 mobs).

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewt...hp?id=8432&p=4

I'm sure you are referring to this thread which if you actually finished reading it, a warrior with 342 defense could not get a 63 mob to crit/crush him with shield block up. It is simple to be crit/crushed with shield block up if you turn your back to the mob however.

Actually, I'd never seen that second-last post, thanks. It seems to clarify something I'd conjectured for a long time, which is that Block doesn't behave in any unusual way (and the notion that Block itself had to be over 100% wasn't based on anything).

So, as far as we know, "one roll" still accounts for all known Mob vs. Player behavior. Really surprising that this wouldn't be the case for Player vs Mob.

look back at when i used reck on loath, in the 15 sec that it was up i missed 4 attacks. now granted that could just have been a terible stroke of luck but this is my theory on it.

if we go with the theory that crit adds to hit then we would have the following
50 from spore
12.xx from hit
35 or so from crit gear/pots on
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= 97 hit.

once i use recklessness that shoots me over 100% to crit and perhaps there is a treshhold at 100% that resets or does some other funky things once you break 100%. im not too fomilar with the cold blood mechanics but if its anything like recklessness but for specials that could explaine why it can miss since it shoots the rogue over 100%. just a thought.

The reason people conjectured it was because they needed a reason that they were crit/crushed during shield block when it was nobody's fault but their own (not facing the mob, either due to lag or something else)

The one-roll system accounts for all known "white" melee attacks, which is the only type of melee attack a mob has that can crit/crush. Mobs special melee attacks probably use a 2-roll system as well, but there is no actual difference because they cannot crit/crush, and thus the only outcome of the second roll is a hit.

umm.. I'm pretty sure Razuvious crit me with an unbalancing strike one time. It hurt.

edit: post below - well he usually hits me for like 40k (plate), that one went over 100k. I have no screenies tho, so I'll just shut up.

He didn't. He just UBSes really, really hard.