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Old 11/28/06, 9:06 PM   #16
Elendril
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Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by krucifix85
And Jessi, from what I've read, yes 5v5 will be on a higher scalar for honor points than 2v2 or 3v3. Not *exactly* sure what it all means, but I think something like the top 5v5 team would earn more honor than the top 2v2 team.
more arena ranking points, not honor, but yeah, that's exactly what it means.

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Old 11/28/06, 9:13 PM   #17
namufot
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Murloc Priest
 
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Originally Posted by jessi
More info on the arena:

- Won't be able to create arena teams until 70
- You can PuG it, or join as group (skirmish) and can face alliance or horde.
- If you join with your arena team you can only face the opposite faction (correct if wrong)
- You only get "honor" from your lvl 70 arena team games, and none from the skirmish (correct if wrong)

I've spent a lot of time on the PTR in them as a rogue, warrior and paladin and I have the most fun in 2v2 and 3v3 and have hardly spent any time in 5v5 because it seems like it's much more of a clusterfuck.. however, from what you said... at 70 in a arena team I'd get more honor from it? :(
-If you join with your arena team you can play teams from both factions.
-I have not received any "honor" points from my lvl 70 arena games. I think what you mean is that you can only get arena points from level 70 arenas, not to be confused with honor. I have played both rated and non-rated games and neither one has been giving "honor" for kills. Also I think their system is bugged right now on beta because my 3's team went 26-6 last week and I didn't get any arena points for it while my team mates did. T_T

I've played a lot of 2v2 and 3v3 @ lvl 70 now and there are just matchups, especially in 2v2, that really favor one team. One problem I forsee with 5v5's is that the arenas are too small, especially the blades edge one. The nagrand arena is decently sized for a 5v5 but I'd still like to see just a plain area, no pillars or bridges or whatever else, that is decently sized.

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Old 11/28/06, 9:26 PM   #18
Eej
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Eej
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Originally Posted by namufot
I've played a lot of 2v2 and 3v3 @ lvl 70 now and there are just matchups, especially in 2v2, that really favor one team. One problem I forsee with 5v5's is that the arenas are too small, especially the blades edge one. The nagrand arena is decently sized for a 5v5 but I'd still like to see just a plain area, no pillars or bridges or whatever else, that is decently sized.
I'm fairly certain that all arenas will be designed with obstacles because ducking in and out of LoS is a huge part of PvP.

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Old 11/28/06, 10:07 PM   #19
Pyros
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I hope they add non breaking los decorations tho, like tall herbs or trees. I found that hiding your character in BGs was pretty fun to do. You know like when the dwaf priests go and hide in herbs at the AB smith and chain heal while being ignored. It forces you to keep an eye out of the middle of your screen to spot the magical effects and such, and make tracking more important if the map is complex enough.

I'm wondering what's the plan with arenas, currently there's only 2, but if you go and run around the zones, you can really see them(and use them as normal live arenas like gurubashi or dm). However in the other zones, there's no arena yet. Maybe they don't plan on adding any other arenas besides those 2 until the end. I would assume adding such a big building on a map would take a bit of time/work. Or maybe not, I hope we'll see at least one more map for arenas tho, Blade's edge is so biased toward classes with instant casts because of LoS issues in the ramps that's it's not really fun if you play a dest lock, a hunter or a healing paladin. Also pet pathing is pretty annoying in there so pet based classes might have more trouble sustaining their dps.

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Old 11/28/06, 11:33 PM   #20
Crossbones
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2v2s give dramatically less points than 5v5s. I forget the exact values, but 5v5s were something like ~2.5 - 3x as much given the same rating. I think 5v5 should give more, but I still think 2v2 should be viable to the point where you do it more than just for kicks. I've found that on the PTRs, the popularity goes from 5 -> 2 but on the beta, it's the reverse since there's not as many people queuing.

On the PTRs, burst damage without the lv 70 HP gains makes things pretty lame. Playing with me (holy priest), 2 AP mages, an ele shaman, and a prep rogue, nothing could even come remotely close to stopping us as they'd pretty much instantly die. Honestly, I'm kind of worried that things will be stupid even with the hp gains. I'm not 70 yet since I'm not really playing all that hard and want to save some for retail, but the numbers I see 70s putting out are pretty huge and I'm not sure an extra 4-5k hp will make enough of a difference.

Reagents should just be free in the arena. There's no reason warlocks/rogues/etc should have to farm since it's not like they're going to waste their precious ten games playing unprepared anyway.

You definitely can fight your own faction contrary to what someone said above.

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Old 11/29/06, 2:10 AM   #21
Vhad
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
I really wonder why they put in Blade's Edge Arena like they did, it's just a horrible map, skeletons on the bridge and the sand making simple things as walking around a pain in the ass. If it's still random on live servers when the arenas are rated I can see my self hiding and leaving queue for all Blade's Edge Arena invitations because of the poor design and the LOS disadvantages casters suffer from in that arena.
Nagrand however is awesome, the only gripe I have with that arena is those silly Tornados, adds a level of randomness to the arena that I do not appreciate.

5vs5 might be fun if you have a proper group for it (friends/guildies etc) but from all the testing I did on PTR I just found em very very boring, another poster called it a clusterfuck and I can only attest to that - especially in Blade's Edge.
I'm afraid that if you wish to advance in the arena system you have to resort to doing 5vs5s or you won't accumulate enough points to be worth the time investment etc. pigeonholing people to get a 5 man team. So far I've been very pleased with the Arena type fighting and have had a ton of fun, I hope it continues in TBC.

What!?

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Old 11/29/06, 2:20 AM   #22
Tynnan
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I can't take credit for the work behind this, but I found some posts on the Beta realms discussing the point rewards in the Arena system:


2v2:
Games Won/Lost -> Rating -> Points Awarded

??/?? -> 1499 -> 163
??/?? -> 1543 -> 179 (this point deviates slightly from a linear model)
36/21-> 1583 -> 199
??/?? -> 1800 -> 290

Rough (linear) approximation to the logistic curve:

POINTS = 0.4214*RATING - 468.45
5v5:
Logistic Curve:
Aye, I went back and got a very nice fit with this:
a = 1416.270137
m = 0.649923848
n = 28.27579699
tau = 382.9598353
adj = 1081.626558

in this equation:

Points(Rating) = a * (1 + m * (e^(-(Rating-adj)/tau)))/(1 + n * (e^(-(Rating-adj)/tau)))

That's for 2v2; Multiply a by 2.5 for 5v5 or by 1.5 for 3v3.

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Old 11/29/06, 3:46 AM   #23
Maels
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Dethecus
They need to add more than 2 Arenas, the few days I've played them and I am already bored with the bridge one. Although I thoroughly enjoy running around the mullberry bush in the one with the 4 pillars.

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Old 11/29/06, 3:52 AM   #24
Tynnan
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Archimonde
Yeah the Blade's Edge arena can be annoying at times with the convoluted LOS paths caused by the bridge, pillars, and ramps.

Nagrand's "simpler is better" approach works wonders, though.

I'd like to see something with a little water -- nothing deep or movement-impairing, but because sand and stone gets a little boring to look at after a while.

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Old 11/29/06, 4:13 AM   #25
Kinv
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Human Warrior
 
Dethecus
The different terrain adds variety and forces you to possibly different strats for the different arenas, though unless it's been changed the Pillar in the blades edge arena you can jump to could be a pretty huge point to control since you can pretty easily block all melee from accessing it. Also if you especially hate the terrain in one of the arenas, in BC you can Q for just 1 of the arenas if you Q from the actual arena and not the goblin in the major cities, that's if it hasn't been changed since the beginning of beta however.

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Old 11/29/06, 10:41 AM   #26
DeeNogger
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The arenas are crazy fun. me and a guild mate that got into beta did a few. We are obviously no pvp masters so our strategy usual broke down into "is it a rogue...... ZERG EM!"

But shadow priests finally get a venue where they truly shine.

I write things The word of DeeNogger -- New Blog Post Oct 2012!!

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Old 11/29/06, 11:51 AM   #27
Maligne
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Clarence
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Originally Posted by DeeNogger
But shadow priests finally get a venue where they truly shine.
So where exactly do shadow priests not shine? =p

Anyone know if the skirmishes (pre 70 arenas) are going to give honor when 2.0 goes live next week? They don't on the PTR and I can't see it staying that way.

Originally Posted by Nurru View Post
Actually pewsey, it's typed as z[tab] and it's pretty well established as the standard notation for the ziplist applicative functor.

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Old 11/29/06, 11:53 AM   #28
Jekar
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Silver Hand
Originally Posted by krucifix85
when it's very possible that your team could be a gimped 2x Holy Priest, or 2x Holy Paladin
Save this quote for all the servers where 2x Holy Paladin teams go undefeated for the next few years... If they have the gear, they do damage, and they do it while they wear a shield. Holy Paladins can kill people all too well with spell damage gear.

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Old 11/29/06, 12:31 PM   #29
alienangel
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Eredar
Originally Posted by krucifix85
- Cooldowns are reset at the end of each Arena fight
Sorry to nit-pick, but I think cooldowns are reset at the start of each arena fight, not the end. I think I remember coming out of a match on the test server with things on cooldown, and I know I entered matches with trinkets on cooldown, but when i zoned in they were ready for use.

And to answer the question, I vastly preferred the 3v3 bracket while pugging because it was more controlled - i could keep track of my team mates and the enemy and manage to keep everyone at the ranges I want to keep them at - in 5v5 people were running around all over the place and the enemy usually wasn't grouped enough to DPS properly.

When i signed up for a premade though, 5v5 was a blast. 3 hunters + Paladin + Mage generally meant we could stand at our gate and focus fire down anyone we wanted - since we had a team we could set out guidelines ahead of time about what order enemy classes needed to die.

And a wish-list entry: I wish people could click a sort of ready check button in buffing time - if everyone on both sides is ready, the match begins, instead of waiting the full preptime. given how short the matches are, the short preptime gets annoying when you're in a team that can finish all buffs in 10s.

Reagents: I think buff reagents should be free, so people can do Arcane Brilliance and Prayer of Fortitude and Greater Blessings without reagents. Combat reagents on the other hand I don't know. I don't see them making arrows or poisons or bandages free, so I don't see why blinding powder or soul shards should be free either. Especially not with how annoying it would be for blind - if it cost no reagent, having a rogue on your team would mean one person on the enemy team would be out of action for 15s every game - and that's almost long enough to win a match.

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Old 11/29/06, 12:33 PM   #30
Pyros
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Yeah, would work better with Prot paladins instead of Holy since Holy is a viable spec
As for arenas they don't give honor on beta either, not even in rated matches. I guess you don't get any honor for beating people in an arena from a roleplaying point of view, while you'd get some from defending "world" objectives in BGs

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