Ratings: what did they accomplish? - Page 3

Cel · 11/29/06, 7:18 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

It does in fact go down Cel. The changes you notice are mostly a result of weapon skill differences. If your scenario were the case a lvl 60 would have near 100% crit rate against lvl 1 mobs, which isn't the case.

The amount of raw agility/int/rating per absolute point of crit increases as you level.

Originally Posted by Karakas

That's not entirely true.

It's only true in terms of weapon skill vs. defense crit%. The game, however, does not recalculate your crit% vs. lower level mobs by adjusting your crit% based on your target's level's coefficient.

Easy way to test this: in raiding gear, your crit%, calculated using level 1 crit/agi terms, will be much higher than what you would observe if you actually went and attacked level 1 mobs.

Ahh, I see... I suppose I saw the increase and crit and made too many assumptions based on that... it makes more sense to attribute the extra crit to the weapon skill though, thanks for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Nurru

Originally Posted by Cel

something like 20.1% chance to crit a level 62.
Now that you've leveled, your chance to crit a level 63 is 19.5%.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but you've just proven your crit relative to your level does in fact go down. So at 70 his crit on an equal level mob will have gone down a fair amount from his crit at 60 on a lvl 60 mob. I believe that is the common complaint.

One says against 62, one says against 63.. so I didn't directly contradict myself, but I was still wrong. :P
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So the only real improvement a person gets when leveling is weapon skill and the ability to wear better armor, dps wise? =\

Glaurong · 11/29/06, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cel

So the only real improvement a person gets when leveling is weapon skill and the ability to wear better armor, dps wise? =\

Small improvements from your increased base statistics but these are relatively minimal and new ranks of abilities

• Hamlet · 11/29/06, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

new ranks of abilities

Entire basis of the leveling curve of this game.

Drauk · 11/30/06, 4:10 AM

Originally Posted by Zoner

Except as usual the system is extremely unfair to casters. Melee fighting downranked mobs crit more due to level difference, but this is not true of spells. Our crit permanently goes down as we level.

Not quite true. Casters definitely have increased crit chance against lower level mobs.

Northerner · 11/30/06, 4:33 AM

Originally Posted by Drauk

Originally Posted by Zoner

Except as usual the system is extremely unfair to casters. Melee fighting downranked mobs crit more due to level difference, but this is not true of spells. Our crit permanently goes down as we level.

Not quite true. Casters definitely have increased crit chance against lower level mobs.

I would like to see some proof or at least a quick parse on that one. I haven't tested it in a long, long time but I saw zero crit chance increase in casual parsing back when I did a test on 50ish boars outside Org (level 8-9ish?) and a few hundred -1 to -8 targets in Azshara. Certainly my crit-rate in Beta seems to match up pretty well with my expected for any sub-MyLevel target.

If you maintain that as a fact, I'll try to work up a control situation and do some real work but frankly I hate to bother until we have a 'gold' patch.

Emth · 11/30/06, 5:12 AM

The 1-60 affect is made more extreme now by not only having int/agi decrease in value as you level but ratings too? As the ratings are purely clvl and not enemy level based this surely means someone at 60 who levels to 65 and changes no gear will indeed crit less vs level 60 mobs than they did at 60.

Ayr · 11/30/06, 5:19 AM

Originally Posted by Emth

The 1-60 affect is made more extreme now by not only having int/agi decrease in value as you level but ratings too? As the ratings are purely clvl and not enemy level based this surely means someone at 60 who levels to 65 and changes no gear will indeed crit less vs level 60 mobs than they did at 60.

Except you gain free agility as you level, and you gain +weaponskill again as you level which again increases crit rate. Those will compensate somewhat the loss from ratings, perhaps even overcompensate? Some math would be nice.

Drauk · 11/30/06, 6:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ayr

and you gain +weaponskill again as you level which again increases crit rate.

Uhm, what ? +skill only gives extra crit if your +skill is bigger than target +def, and it is linear increase, you will always have same (very small however) extra crit against -1 target, no matter what your level is.
If you meant new effect of +skill on higher level targets, nobody knows for sure how it works.

Ayr · 11/30/06, 6:47 AM

No, I meant at level 60 you have X weaponskill against a lvl 60 target. At level 65 you have X+25 weaponskill against that same lvl 60 target. And as far as I remember, +weaponskill has now been stated to give an actual increase in crit rating, although please forgive me for not knowing the exact numbers.

Emth · 11/30/06, 7:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ayr

No, I meant at level 60 you have X weaponskill against a lvl 60 target. At level 65 you have X+25 weaponskill against that same lvl 60 target. And as far as I remember, +weaponskill has now been stated to give an actual increase in crit rating, although please forgive me for not knowing the exact numbers.

I believe +weaponskill rating is only adding crit verses higher level enemies (I'm not 100% though, need to find the blue post), that's assuming added weaponskill functions the same way as base (which judging from orc and human racials it does). I'm sure Kalgan said something about it still being attractive for raid content.

Unless things are vastly different 61 - 70 (I haven't played beta) the amount of agility or int gained per level is trivial compared to the amount of crit lost from recalculated agi/crit ratios. My mage alt was on 8% crit at ~30 and is now on 4% crit at level 45, and thats with plenty of gear upgrades. Ratings will depreicate reasonably slowly but it's going to be damn noticeable for people like fire mages and warriors who rely on stacking +crit rather than int/agi.