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Old 11/30/06, 5:43 PM   #1
tunah
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Eldre'Thalas
Minor speed is a low-level enchant with cheap materials that increases your base run speed by 8%. Alternative enchants for this slot are +7STA, +7AGI, and +5SPI.

It's obviously a great PVP enchant, especially for melee classes, and it's also very useful for certain PVE encounters. For example a fair proprotion of our group swaps in speed-enchanted boots for Ossirian.

I'm curious though whether for melee clases it's useful enough to make it your 'default' enchant. Even from a pure DPS point of view, getting to the mob and to your position slightly faster could potentially add up to more than the extra stats. Obviously this is going to depend on the types of encounters you're in.

I can't see it being particularly easy to measure in a controlled way, what are people's thoughts? Do many people out there use run speed as their main enchant in a raid setting?

(As a side note, do +speed/snares stack additively or multiplicatively?)

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Old 11/30/06, 5:47 PM   #2
Trey
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Garona
I know our tanks have extra sets of boots with that enchant for Razorgore, but I don't think it's worth enough to be the default enchant for any PvEr. If I were a melee I would take the fraction of extra damage from the agi over cathcing up to a mob a quarter second earlier

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Old 11/30/06, 5:49 PM   #3
Vema
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by tunah
(As a side note, do +speed/snares stack additively or multiplicatively?)
First off, +speed doesnt stack, at all, except for with pack I believe, there really isnt enough +snares in the game to have tested it (yet).

A warlock in my guild has said consistantly, and I agree with, that 8% more speed will save your life in PvE more then 70 life will. Blizzard seems to be adressing this by providing rogues/pallies with a passive 8% talent to allow them some more enchant flexibility. I simply cannot imagine not having some form on speed enchant on my boots, there are too many situations where 1 yard to short is death

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Old 11/30/06, 5:55 PM   #4
tunah
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Vema
Originally Posted by tunah
(As a side note, do +speed/snares stack additively or multiplicatively?)
First off, +speed doesnt stack, at all, except for with pack I believe, there really isnt enough +snares in the game to have tested it (yet).
Sorry, I worded that badly... (although i am curious about aotc/aotp, having a hunter).

If you were frostbolted (40% snare) and runspeed enchanted, what's your speed? And similar with slowing poison, dazed, etc.

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Old 11/30/06, 5:56 PM   #5
Apate
POWER = MEAT + OPPORTUNITY = BATTLEWORMS
 
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ChickenArise
Night Elf Warlock
 
No WoW Account
I use my +speed boots more often than I thought when I had them enchanted for Razorgore. Anytime I find myself feeling like a little extra movement could've helped me out, and we wipe, I swap into them. I also use them to get back to a boss area if it's deep into an indoor zone, just for the coolness factor ;)

Either way, it's great to have as an option.

Have you seen http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=12418 ?

As far as stacking goes, it is multiplicative in the cases that it does stack.

See you, auntie.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:06 PM   #6
Vema
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by tunah
Originally Posted by Vema
Originally Posted by tunah
(As a side note, do +speed/snares stack additively or multiplicatively?)
First off, +speed doesnt stack, at all, except for with pack I believe, there really isnt enough +snares in the game to have tested it (yet).
Sorry, I worded that badly... (although i am curious about aotc/aotp, having a hunter).

If you were frostbolted (40% snare) and runspeed enchanted, what's your speed? And similar with slowing poison, dazed, etc.
dazed is unique as far as I can tell, nothing affects it except +Defense, which just reduces the chances of being dazed.

As for -speed and +speed, it should be easy to test, if they add you should be at 68%, if they multiply at 63%. Going from what we know about +mount speed (which does stack, by adding) it should be 68%.

As for -%chance to be snared, I believe its an extra resist check ontop of the binary resist check, you would still take the frost damage, but would resist the "100% chance to be snared" effect for frostbolt. I am intrested in seeing how mindflay is affected by this, as the dot seems to wrap the snare and damage into one effect.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:09 PM   #7
Aramul
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Trey
I know our tanks have extra sets of boots with that enchant for Razorgore, but I don't think it's worth enough to be the default enchant for any PvEr. If I were a melee I would take the fraction of extra damage from the agi over cathcing up to a mob a quarter second earlier
Unless it's an encounter like Twin Emperors where you're moving every 40 seconds to a new location. Is one extra "tick" of damage better than +7 agi? There are plenty of encounters where the movement increase helps you both survive and deal more damage.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:11 PM   #8
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Pre-AQ40, random stats on boots are reasonable. Most of the encounters are static, with some LoS that doesn't involve much movement. Kiting on Razorgore and ducking Chromaggus breaths would be the only big uses.

AQ40 and Naxx, I couldn't imaging not having speed on my boots. Specifically for Heigen, the difference between speeded boots (pausing to wait for the splashes) and no speed (moving the entire time) was huge. For encounters where speed would be better than another stat, I'd include Thaddius, Heigen, Twin Emps, C'Thun, Ouro, Satura, and GWF. Loatheb, Gluth, Anub, Maexx, Bug Trio and Razorgore could see speed being useful, depending on the person's specific role in the encounter. I haven't done 4HM, Sapph, or K'T so can't comment on those fights.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:15 PM   #9
Daksafiya
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Frostmourne
Minor speed is definately my preferred boot enchantment. Whilst an increase in stamina or agility is nice, having slightly faster movement speed is a concession I'm willing to make. Whatever helps me get to where I want to be faster, be it in a raiding or general movement context (e.g. trip to BRM), I am happier. Being able to outpace a pursuer is a lot more meaningful than +7 stam.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:18 PM   #10
 Hamlet
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
This has always been my standard enchant on my main gear.


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Old 11/30/06, 6:24 PM   #11
Mosh
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warlock
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Arawethion
This has always been my standard enchant on my main gear.
This. 7 stats is so minor in comparison, I could only see myself using something else if I was tanking in Naxx.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:25 PM   #12
Northerner
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
It is also my standard boots enchant and pretty much always has been. (In fact, the first thing I do with alts is to get them a 'decent' pair of boots enchanted with it.) Now, a big part of that is just that there is nothing really compelling as a mage for the slot but I really do very much like the extra little bit of speed.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:28 PM   #13
 Shalas
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Copernicus
Specifically for Heigen, the difference between speeded boots (pausing to wait for the splashes) and no speed (moving the entire time) was huge.
Hmm? I have to stop between each splash even without speed on my boots on Heigan.

Past BWL I'd never put anything but speed on my boots as a dpser, but for healing it seems mostly unnessesary, as getting somewhere faster will just mean I spend more time standing there. Sartura's the only boss where I've often wished I could move faster, but I never really had trouble surviving that. It's definatly nice for post-emps trash, though.

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Old 11/30/06, 6:43 PM   #14
Tuco
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
I think around the time we started doing Thaddius I've had it on my boots and have kept it.

For PVE at least, running is supremely important on Thaddius, Heigan, 4H, and Sapphiron. It's also mildly important on Anub, Faerlina, Grobb(but who gives a shit about him), gluth, razuvious(for casters), Gothik, Noth and Loatheb.

The fact that Thaddius, 4H and Sapphiron are two of the more critical fights in the raid game right now, and that being slow on Sapphiron/Thaddius can kill you and wipe your raid respectively, make every ounce of speed worth it.

As a priest I didn't need it so much before Naxx (though it would help on C'Thun quite a bit, but I rarely ever died due to no runspeed)

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Old 11/30/06, 6:44 PM   #15
diotox
Don Flamenco
 
Clot
Undead Death Knight
 
No WoW Account
I can't stand not having it, I feel like a sloth without it. The thought of dropping 2 more arcanite bars for a 2nd pair of dreadnaught boots just to put speed on has seriously crossed my mind quite often. I wouldn't do that over someone else needing their 1st pair, but if we get to the point where everyone has their t3 boots, I might snag a 2nd pair to do just that. I really get surprised when I inspect random people and see just how uncommon the speed enchant is, I would have expected it to be more common than it is. Their loss, I guess.

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