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Old 12/02/06, 11:18 AM   #16
Trashe
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warlock
 
Lothar
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Round numbers are easier to work with, but I would rather need 15.8 hit rating to get 1% to hit than need 16 hit rating. I am glad they started with even number at 60 and worked out scaling to 70.
Why didn't they scale it from both ends, so we'd have round numbers at 60 and 70? Since you spend 90% of your game time at max level, it would seem to make sense, no?

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Old 12/02/06, 11:25 AM   #17
Chiquihuite
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Drauk
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5819-Rating_Buster.html

Author of this mod reverse engineered formula based on about 20 samples for each value, and his formula is correct to 13th decimal place
Whoa, Whitetooth still plays? I haven't seen him around in FOREVER.

Very useful addon though. That'll come in very handy.

"They're Dragon Kill Points; not Dragon Feed Points"

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Old 12/02/06, 11:27 AM   #18
Cryect
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Trashe
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Round numbers are easier to work with, but I would rather need 15.8 hit rating to get 1% to hit than need 16 hit rating. I am glad they started with even number at 60 and worked out scaling to 70.
Why didn't they scale it from both ends, so we'd have round numbers at 60 and 70? Since you spend 90% of your game time at max level, it would seem to make sense, no?
Blizzard for some reason has never bothered to give us nice round numbers for about any formula so far (consider Attack Power and Crit and Dodge numbers have often not been integers for various classes)

I need to do something useless.

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Old 12/02/06, 12:34 PM   #19
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Quigon
Does anyone else find this silly?

The whole "rating" thing that is - I mean, I understand the point, but surely there are better ways to put this out there?
I made a thread about it here:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=9446


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Old 12/02/06, 2:27 PM   #20
• Chicken
 
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Upsidazi
Gnome Monk
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Kody
I just find it silly that it isn't a standardized value across all ratings to reach a percentage chance in that rating.
I think the actual values were chosen for convenience for the itemization team. For the most part they match very closely with the StatMods reverse engineered by Hyzenthlei at level 60.

+8 Hit Rating (Spells), 1% Chance to Hit (Spells), StatMod: 8.00
+14 Crit Rating (Spells), 1% Chance to Crit (Spells), StatMod: 14.00
+10 Hit Rating (Melee), 1% Chance to Hit (Melee), StatMod: 10.00
+14 Crit Rating (Melee), 1% Chance to Crit (Melee), StatMod: 14.00
+13 Block Rating, 3% Chance to Block, StatMod: 4.33 for each % chance to block (Which equals 13.00 for 3%)
+12 Dodge Rating, 1% Chance to Dodge, StatMod: 12.00
+20 Parry Rating, 1% Chance to Parry, StatMod: 20.00
+1.5 Defense Rating, +1 Defense Skill, StatMod: 1.50
+2.5 Weapon Skill Rating, +1 Weapon Skill, StatMod: 3.00 for daggers, 2.30 for others.

Late Edit:

That's also why the few rare existing low level items with some of those stats are pretty skewed at the level you get them. If they weren't, they'd be heavily underitemized and would need other stats to compensate.

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Old 12/02/06, 4:25 PM   #21
LuckyAC
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Bronzebeard
Originally Posted by kharen
Speaking of crit rating, I noticed something amusing the other day - whatever automated process Blizzard used to convert legacy items to the ratings system, it did all the calculations based on the level 60 numbers, even for lowbie gear. So a pair of Shadowskin Gloves, if equipped at the minimum level, will give nearly double the benefit that they currently do. Not a huge issue, as there simply aren't that many low-level items with crit, but those few that do exist become immensely more powerful for their level.
What about http://thottbot.com/beta?i=6290? That's 4.33% crit for a green :) It definitely skews values of rated items below level 60, however scarce they are.

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Old 12/04/06, 12:54 AM   #22
TheOnly
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by TL-Seria
That's simply because 1% dodge is not worth as much as 1% parry, but a 1 rating is always worth 1 rating.
But that can't be true, since each thing's worth varies by class, spec, and your other gear.

For example, as a warlock destruction specc'd, %spell crit is more valuable than %spell hit for nuke dps, but less for dots and life tap. But an affliction spec lock %spell crit is always worth less than %spell hit.

1 rating of one type is not = 1 rating of another type.

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Old 12/04/06, 1:17 AM   #23
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by TheOnly
Originally Posted by TL-Seria
That's simply because 1% dodge is not worth as much as 1% parry, but a 1 rating is always worth 1 rating.
But that can't be true, since each thing's worth varies by class, spec, and your other gear.

For example, as a warlock destruction specc'd, %spell crit is more valuable than %spell hit for nuke dps, but less for dots and life tap. But an affliction spec lock %spell crit is always worth less than %spell hit.

1 rating of one type is not = 1 rating of another type.
Not to mention that, for a druid tank, + parry/block are utterly worthless, +defense is marginal, and +dodge is what they really want for mitigation.

There's plenty of similar situations. A blanket statement of "1%x is always greater than 1%y" is sheer folly. As mentioned above, the ratings seem to be chosen to correspond to already-existing itemization values.

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Old 12/04/06, 4:06 AM   #24
Furion
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Blutkessel (EU)
But those item values on the other hand are based on the actual ingame value of the stat(at least that would make sense).

These values are just the rule, of course there are exceptions as already mentioned.
Quite frankly I like this insight into blizzards way of itemization.

So 1 rating really is always "worth" 1 rating but only in terms of itemization value.

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Old 12/04/06, 4:44 AM   #25
LuckyAC
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Bronzebeard
Originally Posted by TheOnly
Originally Posted by TL-Seria
That's simply because 1% dodge is not worth as much as 1% parry, but a 1 rating is always worth 1 rating.
But that can't be true, since each thing's worth varies by class, spec, and your other gear.

For example, as a warlock destruction specc'd, %spell crit is more valuable than %spell hit for nuke dps, but less for dots and life tap. But an affliction spec lock %spell crit is always worth less than %spell hit.

1 rating of one type is not = 1 rating of another type.
You are searching way too hard for examples. A simple one would have been that 1 intellect is not as valuable as 1 agility for a rogue.

No one is disputing this, the point is that is that while "value" may vary, cost never does. Previously, 1% dodge COST more than 1% on an item, no matter how valuable it was to any person in particular.

Imagine you are at 7 11 and see a bag of Skittles for 50c and a Snickers bar for $1. You hate nougat, so you value the Skittles more, but that doesn't change the fact that the Snickers bar costs more for everybody.

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Old 12/04/06, 7:27 AM   #26
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Blizzard really doesn't care what you believe a stat to be worth. Remember when MC first came out and most guilds were wiping in UBRS with 20 people, everyone though Spi was completely useless and Int was the only worthwhile stat for casters (kinda was, due to the way FSR worked back then) now I'd be more than happy to trade almost all my Int for more Spi/Mp5.

Chicken, where did you get those numbers? http://www.wow.lv/content.php?article.44 Is the only source I have for the formulae, and it disagrees with the numbers you have multiple places.

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Old 12/04/06, 7:36 AM   #27
• Chicken
 
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Upsidazi
Gnome Monk
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Boevis
Blizzard really doesn't care what you believe a stat to be worth. Remember when MC first came out and most guilds were wiping in UBRS with 20 people, everyone though Spi was completely useless and Int was the only worthwhile stat for casters (kinda was, due to the way FSR worked back then) now I'd be more than happy to trade almost all my Int for more Spi/Mp5.

Chicken, where did you get those numbers? http://www.wow.lv/content.php?article.44 Is the only source I have for the formulae, and it disagrees with the numbers you have multiple places.
Mine were from WoWWiki, not the best source of information I know. This page: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Item_Values

They do mention these were shown by Blizzard at BlizCon however :)

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Old 12/04/06, 8:34 AM   #28
 Maestroquark
What Would You Have Me Do?
 
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Ramala
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Chicken
They do mention these were shown by Blizzard at BlizCon however :)
Remember that the only ones Blizzard mentioned were crit (14) and dodge (12). The rest were derived from comparing Hyzenthlei's results to what Blizzard stated.

Cally - EJBSG 27; Dee Baltar - EJBSG 22; Tory - EJBSG 20; Leoben - EJBSG 19; Helo - EJBSG 14; Starbuck - EJBSG 12

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Old 12/04/06, 10:45 AM   #29
Whitetooth
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Chiquihuite
Originally Posted by Drauk
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5819-Rating_Buster.html

Author of this mod reverse engineered formula based on about 20 samples for each value, and his formula is correct to 13th decimal place
Whoa, Whitetooth still plays? I haven't seen him around in FOREVER.

Very useful addon though. That'll come in very handy.
Hi, Chiqu
yeah I'm still around, just most of my time in wow has been on TBC servers coding addons :D

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

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