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Old 12/02/06, 3:08 PM   #1
Cel
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
For most AoE, like Arcane Explosion and such, it's enemies x yds from the character will be affected in all directions, but what about things that seem to affect the ground around the player, like consecration? I was in the arena, fighting a paladin. I'm a rogue, so, wanting to remain stealthed, I go up on top of the bridge to drop down and hit the paladin before hitting the consecration on the ground.

I spam my cheapshot button on the way down, but get destealthed before getting in range to hit the paladin.

So... is there an amount of space above the ground that is also affected, or was it just latency to make me unable to land my hit before hitting the ground? (this being the test server, latency could well be the cause)

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

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Old 12/02/06, 3:17 PM   #2
Skiace
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Dalaran
maybe you can't cheap-shot in mid-air?

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Old 12/02/06, 3:34 PM   #3
arch
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Undead Mage
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Well, just yesterday I jumped off that bridge in the arena and spammed ae in the air cause I was hunting a shaman with 2% health. None of the ae hit him mid air.. Could be lag of course but it felt strange.

Not to mention flare. The flare area is at least twice the size of what you see on the ground. Can't tell you how many times my druid has been pulled out of stealth even though I was 5-10 yards away from the flare gfx.

Guardian of Fire PvP since 2005!

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Old 12/02/06, 3:34 PM   #4
Cel
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Ysera
Originally Posted by Skiace
maybe you can't cheap-shot in mid-air?
It's an instant, so I can't imagine why not... it's something that didn't cross my mind, though :P I'm pretty sure you can, though.
Originally Posted by arch
The flare area is at least twice the size of what you see on the ground.
It's intended, I think, that the flare graphic doesn't cover it's entire zone... if you ever cast the flare yourself, you'll see the target circle of the flare is about 2-3yds wider than the graphic that shows up after throwing it out.

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Old 12/02/06, 5:56 PM   #5
 Ultramagnetic
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It's also possible that CS, which requires a target, forces you to the same elevation as the target. If that's the case, maybe the game moves you before executing the CS and not after. The same wouldn't happen with AE, holy nova, etc, or with an instant that's meant to be ranged. Although I don't know how many times I've seen a hunter do Arcane Shot or Scatter Shot while falling.

Originally Posted by madsushi View Post
The East Coast is just a relic of the past, like England.

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Old 12/02/06, 6:06 PM   #6
Northerner
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Mal'Ganis
I would presume that consecration is a cylinder in terms of area-of-effect. Computationally it would be a pain to check for ground contact and anecdotally I've never noticed missing damage by jumping around while in the area. (Oh, yes indeed I do jump around a lot... ) This might not exactly fit the tooltip for the effect but it does seem to be the effect. One thing I can say for certain though, you definitely can CS someone while in mid-air. In fact, that's how I do almost all of my cheapshots.

Now, if true, the remaining question would be what exactly is the height of that cylinder or is it just a sphere or something simple? I haven't really done BG PvP yet on Beta but I'll see if I can figure something out.

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Old 12/02/06, 7:42 PM   #7
Cryect
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormreaver
Just duel someone mount up and see how high you can fly with still taking damage.

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Old 12/03/06, 12:06 AM   #8
Belenos
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Azuremyst
Thottbot lists Concecrate as using the same effect as Blizzard, Rain of Fire, and Volley.
http://thottbot.com/?sp=20924

I'm not sure of anyone has done testing to see the vertical range of this effect though, or of the "spherical" AOE's like Arcane Explosion or Holy Nova. All of these effects have a "radius" parameter, but the game could check them as a sphere, a cylinder, or a truncated cylinder. I wouldn't rely on the graphics since there is not necessarily any correlation.


Edit: I am reminded of back in Diablo 2, when players were trying to figure out the ranges of various auras. They did some testing and found that the aura-application zone was not even remotely circular. Blizzard corrected the aura math after that...
http://www.lurkerlounge.com/content/view/826/120/

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Old 12/03/06, 12:24 AM   #9
Tzeni
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bonechewer
I'm going to guess you didn't spam fast enough. To give you a rough idea of how fast you can spam versus how fast you are probably spamming:

I used to have one keybind on cheap shot and used to spam that when I needed to get a really fast cheap shot on someone (i.e. before being seen and AE'd, or on a rogue/druid in stealth). I timed my apm (basically, how many "clicks" per minute) at about 200-250.

On the advice of a friend of mine, who happens to be one of the best pvp rogues I've ever played with, I bound 3 buttons to cheap shot, on her theory that spamming 3 buttons at the same time gives a far greater apm and leads to faster cheap shots. My apm went up to 400+.

I guess what I'm saying is: no matter how improbable you think it is that you can hit the cheap shot button too late, you can always make your cheap shots faster, and you may have just missed the tiny window where the game allows you cheap shot the pally without taking ae damage.

This is all theory of course, it could be that consecration has some vertical range. And by the way, I'm about 95% sure that I have cheap shotted people in midair before... the 5% just being that I can't completely account for lag making it appear that way.

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Old 12/03/06, 1:14 AM   #10
Ngita
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Human Paladin
 
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Proudmoore
I do know that if you consencrate on a horde av tower people below or above you are not affected.

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Old 12/03/06, 12:28 PM   #11
 Ultramagnetic
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Midair meaning falling or jumping? Maybe everyone is already talking about falling but I did see one post mention jumping around. I don't think jumping produces a real elevation difference on the server side.

I've used Blink while jumping and it works normally. Blink while falling from one elevation to another resets me to the top. My point in this is that I don't think consecrate is treated as a cylinder, I think terrain is made into platforms and as long as you're on the same platform as the caster, you get the damage. And I'm guessing that melee instants force you to the same platform as your target if you're between two platforms.

My rogue got stuck at 35 and then abandoned. The only experience I have with falling melee instants is Charge which is kind of half melee half ranged.

Originally Posted by madsushi View Post
The East Coast is just a relic of the past, like England.

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Old 12/03/06, 12:45 PM   #12
Tzeni
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Ultramagnetic
Midair meaning falling or jumping? Maybe everyone is already talking about falling but I did see one post mention jumping around. I don't think jumping produces a real elevation difference on the server side.
Well, I was talking about falling. I'm 95% sure I cheapshotted someone in midair while falling from the stables entrance to the mine in AB.

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Old 12/03/06, 11:16 PM   #13
Bury
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Ultramagnetic
I don't think jumping produces a real elevation difference on the server side.
Um, what? How would people jump onto objects/over things/around terrain/etc then?


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Old 12/04/06, 12:07 AM   #14
 Shalas
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Bury
Originally Posted by Ultramagnetic
I don't think jumping produces a real elevation difference on the server side.
Um, what? How would people jump onto objects/over things/around terrain/etc then?
Collision detection is done clientside.

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Old 12/04/06, 12:17 AM   #15
Eej
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Eej
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Originally Posted by Shalas
Originally Posted by Bury
Originally Posted by Ultramagnetic
I don't think jumping produces a real elevation difference on the server side.
Um, what? How would people jump onto objects/over things/around terrain/etc then?
Collision detection is done clientside.
As a couple of examples to go with this:

See: Overrated AQ hax. Hunter Stairway to Heaven hack on PTR.

The former is obvious, the second one is just hilarious. A few PTRs ago, some Hunters figured out that if you replaced the Trap model with a model of a Staircase, your client actually thinks that it's a staircase. Thus you could essentially walk into thin-air (that's what everyone else sees) and when objects beneath you despawn (BRD keg anyone?), you maintain elevation. Thus you could lay another trap and just keep on walking in mid-air.

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Old 12/04/06, 3:47 AM   #16
Cryect
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Eej
The former is obvious, the second one is just hilarious. A few PTRs ago, some Hunters figured out that if you replaced the Trap model with a model of a Staircase, your client actually thinks that it's a staircase. Thus you could essentially walk into thin-air (that's what everyone else sees) and when objects beneath you despawn (BRD keg anyone?), you maintain elevation. Thus you could lay another trap and just keep on walking in mid-air.
Heh, and bad Gnauren (aka Bemoliph at the time on the PTR) for using the technique in public resulting in others figuring it out how it was done. Technique was actually about 4 months older than that but my druid has had a couple stacks of Dark Iron Ale for a long time. Best stuff ever I will say for machinimas.

I need to do something useless.

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Old 12/04/06, 6:49 AM   #17
Zagzil
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warrior
 
Korgath
I guess it's kind of ironic that I know this, but a while back when the jump-logout exploit worked I did a bunch of testing, apparently mobs and their abilities aren't affected by the Z-axis.

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Old 12/04/06, 7:03 AM   #18
Tanoh
Piston Honda
 
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Undead Mage
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Zagzil
I guess it's kind of ironic that I know this, but a while back when the jump-logout exploit worked I did a bunch of testing, apparently mobs and their abilities aren't affected by the Z-axis.
A good example of this is in Hearthglen in WPL where you have to go scout a tower. There's probably a lot others too, but I remember this one as I did it a few days ago with an alt.

Basically you run in and aggro the two elite Paladin mobs at the entrance and then run up the tower (standard tower object with a spiral staircase around the wall), even when you're at the top and they are at the stairs, they can hit you. :)

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Old 12/04/06, 9:31 AM   #19
Bury
ad astra per seriouscasua
 
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Shalas
Originally Posted by Bury
Originally Posted by Ultramagnetic
I don't think jumping produces a real elevation difference on the server side.
Um, what? How would people jump onto objects/over things/around terrain/etc then?
Collision detection is done clientside.
Ah okay. My bad.


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Old 12/04/06, 9:33 AM   #20
• Chicken
 
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Ginakursia
Goblin Warlock
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Tanoh
Originally Posted by Zagzil
I guess it's kind of ironic that I know this, but a while back when the jump-logout exploit worked I did a bunch of testing, apparently mobs and their abilities aren't affected by the Z-axis.
A good example of this is in Hearthglen in WPL where you have to go scout a tower. There's probably a lot others too, but I remember this one as I did it a few days ago with an alt.

Basically you run in and aggro the two elite Paladin mobs at the entrance and then run up the tower (standard tower object with a spiral staircase around the wall), even when you're at the top and they are at the stairs, they can hit you. :)
Another good example is Razorgore's room. I had some mobs chasing me and I cleverly stood on the exact edge of the platform waiting for them to come to me maximize the distance between me and them, was quite surprising when they started hitting me from below!

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