Elitist Jerks Mage spreadsheet updated for 2.0

 12/04/06, 6:19 PM #2 Kavan Bald Bull   Kavan Gnome Mage   Kilrogg If I use the same spell for w/ CC and w/o CC I get a bunch of DIV/0 errors. You're dividing by delta in MPS of both spells and in this case it is zero. Also the stats calculations are for humans only I guess? As far as I could determine the correct formula for stats is: INT((INT(Base*(1+ratialBonus)*(1+talentBonus))+GearAndBuffs*(1+ratialBonus)*(1+talent Bonus))*(1+kingsBonus)) You still have Arcane Mind as increasing mana, now it increases Int.
12/04/06, 7:46 PM   #3
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Kavan If I use the same spell for w/ CC and w/o CC I get a bunch of DIV/0 errors. You're dividing by delta in MPS of both spells and in this case it is zero.
Sorry, to be more clear:

If you want to say, "I'm casting Frostbolt and only Frostbolt," put a "1" in for one cycle, and pair it with some trash cycle (You're assuming here that the mana constraint doesn't bind). The "1" by itself signifies "cycle 1, in which Frostbolt both on CC and on non-CC." You need to put something different to pair it with, because the math tries to hit both the time and mana constraints. If the cycle you pair it with is irrelevant, then it will return 100% cycle 1 and give you the number you're looking for. If it returns less than 100% in cycle 1, then the cycle you picked actually improves your DPS.

 Also the stats calculations are for humans only I guess? As far as I could determine the correct formula for stats is: INT((INT(Base*(1+ratialBonus)*(1+talentBonus))+GearAndBuffs*(1+ratialBonus)*(1+talent Bonus))*(1+kingsBonus))
Yeah, human only for now, but I'm pretty sure it's correct.

 You still have Arcane Mind as increasing mana, now it increases Int.
Thanks.

 12/05/06, 4:05 AM #4 kelben Piston Honda   Iblise Draenei Death Knight   Ysera I'm really confused after looking at this chart. One thing I noticed is that you don't have the option for clear casting in the talent columns, I take it too mean that you are assuming the mage has clear casting? And secondly this cycle thing, I'm not getting what your numbers are showing. Haste is the devil...
 12/05/06, 8:29 AM #5 • Hamlet     Hamlet Tauren Druid   Mal'Ganis Yeah, haven't included non-Clearcasting builds yet. When I first made this up, it wasn't really a reasonable raid option. ------------------------------- Ok, here's what's going on. My goal was to not only compute the DPS of certain chaincasting patterns based on gear/talents, but also to figure out what the maximum possible damage over a certain fight length, based on mana. So, say my base cycle is Fireball/Fireball (Fireball on both clearcasts and non-clearcasts). The chart computes the DPS and MPS of that cycle, based on you setup. You will find in column 11 of the large center block on page 2 (for setup A) or page 3 (for setup B). This is the first way to use the chart--just input your gear/talents, and read off the DPS/MPS of any cycle by looking at the corresponding page. I should probably make that part more prominent, actually, since that's often all somebody is interested in. The more complicated part I'll try to explain better at some point. The basic idea is that instead of simply evaluating the damage and mana usage of one cycle, you choose two, and the spreadsheet fits them together to do as much as damage as possible with a certain amount of time/mana. Some explantion is here: http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6825 ------------------------------ Can Mages who have played TBC/Test much tell me whether downranking is ever considered as a serious option anymore? If it's not, I think I can simplify things greatly and eliminate the part where you need to input your cycles up front, since that's what most people find confusing.
 12/05/06, 10:08 AM #6 • Hamlet     Hamlet Tauren Druid   Mal'Ganis Okay, I simplified the usage somewhat. Now, instead of having to input the cycles yourself, it simply asks you whether you're mainly going to be casting Arcane, Fire, or Frost, and uses a predefined spell set for each. Advanced users can edit the spell choices on the first page.
 12/05/06, 10:25 AM #7 • Viator Not Possible     Viator Troll Mage   No WoW Account I've never been a downranker but have always kept Scorch Rank 1 on my toolbar for oom situations (Alliance mage, JoW giving me back more than the cost, etc, etc). It's been a little while but I think I lost about 300 damage on those casts in beta. I'll give it a whirl later today if you want and tell you the difference. Mages have a set time that they want you to ask for food, and that time is pull #4 of the night. You may notice them putting a little snack table down before the raid, that's them cooking the food for you to demand on pull 4. --Nork
 12/05/06, 10:31 AM #8 Setia Piston Honda   Setia Human Mage   Ysera Have I missed something, or is it really impossible to enter a spec without Clearcasting in the spreadsheet? That might be an interesting addition, since a 2/46/3 fire spec seems a viable choice for raiding in 2.0... It's what I'm planning on taking, anyway, and I was interested in seeing how it measured up when you factor in everything.
12/05/06, 10:46 AM   #9
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Setia Have I missed something, or is it really impossible to enter a spec without Clearcasting in the spreadsheet?
At the moment, it is, sorry. When I first made this, non-CC specs just weren't serious raid builds in any case. Unfortunately, since CC has such complex effects, its presence is really baked into the machinery of the sheet. Next time I look at it, I'm going to see if there's way to handle that without a major overhaul. I'd like to see the potential numbers of something like 0/48/3 as well.

 12/05/06, 10:57 AM #10 • Hamlet     Hamlet Tauren Druid   Mal'Ganis Looking ahead: what do people think would be a good way to handle Arcane Blast usage? It's basically the first time that Mage behavior might be something fundamentally different from "chaincast one spell, possible reacting to Clearcasts."
 12/05/06, 11:20 AM #11 Papajan Piston Honda   Papajan Gnome Mage   Lightbringer I haven't raided in beta, but in 5-mans, the only time I'd downrank was to use Rank 1 Frostbolt to snare a mob or get Winter's Chill up. From a coding point of view, it might be easiest to derive a function of time that returns the damage/dps/dpm of arcane blast. It should be doable in Excel I think. But I don't know if it'll affect that optimization algorithm you use since the dps and dpm of the spell isn't independent of the duration of that stage.
12/05/06, 11:40 AM   #12
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Papajan I haven't raided in beta, but in 5-mans, the only time I'd downrank was to use Rank 1 Frostbolt to snare a mob or get Winter's Chill up. From a coding point of view, it might be easiest to derive a function of time that returns the damage/dps/dpm of arcane blast. It should be doable in Excel I think. But I don't know if it'll affect that optimization algorithm you use since the dps and dpm of the spell isn't independent of the duration of that stage.
The answer will probably just be to implement custom cycles for any casting patterns that people that using. Such as "3 Frostbolts, then a first-order Arcane Blast, then repeat." Or "third-order Arcane Blasts, with Missiles on Clearcasts." I'm guessing there won't anything much more complicated than that. In the latter case, the ramping-up of AB is an edge effect to just ignore, much like Imp. Scorch.

 12/06/06, 6:58 PM #13 Nal Von Kaiser   Spinner Gnome Warlock   Alexstrasza I could be mistaken, but I think the spreadsheet is currently handling the new elemental precision incorrectly. It doesn't credit a 3% mana reduction, though it seems to be correctly applying only 3% hit. Edit: Also failed to include the crit bonus for pyromaniac in the crit formulas. I may have an older version of your spreadsheet, however. Apologies if these are issues about which you are already aware.
 12/18/06, 3:13 AM #14 Kolenzo Von Kaiser     Kolzi Blood Elf Mage   Frostmourne thanks for the great work. i was wondering how you are going to factor arcane blast into your spell cycles? it might be worth looking into both the effectiveness of chain casting it and alternating between arcane blast and say arcane missles.
12/20/06, 9:59 AM   #15
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Kolenzo thanks for the great work. i was wondering how you are going to factor arcane blast into your spell cycles? it might be worth looking into both the effectiveness of chain casting it and alternating between arcane blast and say arcane missles.
I made a quick note on this above, haven't thought about it much more since then. It's still a little while until the 70 raid game, and we'll have a much better familiarity with Arcane Blast by then.

As to errors pointed out above: I don't think I've fixed either of those, and probably won't for a little while--out of the country at the moment.

 Elitist Jerks Mage spreadsheet updated for 2.0