Burning Crusade - New Encounter Mechanics - Page 3

Glaurong · 12/15/06, 2:53 PM

Really? There are encounters that require/force raid stacking? Stop the presses!

Originally Posted by Mosh

Both Blackheart the Inciter and Murmur hold a special place in my heart, and Shadow Labs in general is perhaps my favourite five-man in the game (excluding SM of course, which is naturally better than anything in the game pve or pvp, for it's level).

Did Shadow Labs a couple times the other day.

Blackheart was a lot of fun but unless there is a gimmick I'm missing its really luck based. There is a special place in hell for rogues that gleefully murder all the groups healers during the first charm. I guess I'll have a place right next to them though after the last run. I think I took out 3 people during one charm (Bestial Wrath, Rapid Fire, Multi-Shot etc.)

Acustar · 12/15/06, 3:23 PM

All I can say is I hope there's no more complete 'luck' based encounters like Razuvious. We have priests decked in 6+ hit and -resists etc and still have problems sometimes. It's not very fun to be able to one-shot all the other bosses (for us it's spiderwing, patch/grob and noth) and wipe 4-5 times one night because of a bad timed break followed by a shout. I think gimmick fights can be alot of fun (ala Hakkar, Razorgore) but sometimes the abilities involved are just annoying.

ps: I know the Raz encounter isn't entierly luck based but it can sure feel like it.

Harem · 12/15/06, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Acustar

All I can say is I hope there's no more complete 'luck' based encounters like Razuvious. We have priests decked in 6+ hit and -resists etc and still have problems sometimes. It's not very fun to be able to one-shot all the other bosses (for us it's spiderwing, patch/grob and noth) and wipe 4-5 times one night because of a bad timed break followed by a shout. I think gimmick fights can be alot of fun (ala Hakkar, Razorgore) but sometimes the abilities involved are just annoying.

ps: I know the Raz encounter isn't entierly luck based but it can sure feel like it.

Off topic, but why does Raz move when a MC breaks? He should aggro a rogue/fury warrior who will evasion (or die, sorry warriors), holding him in place...

kharen · 12/15/06, 9:07 PM

There is a special place in hell for rogues that gleefully murder all the groups healers during the first charm.

I assume it has the usual %damage boost when charmed? If so, i'm so totally respeccing combat when i get to that instance. Oneshotting people with blade flurry just never gets old (my all-time record hit is ~21k during a chromag when our curers were getting slack - i think i took out about half the raid before they killed me...).

gunderbald · 12/15/06, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Harem

[...] Off topic, but why does Raz move when a MC breaks? He should aggro a rogue/fury warrior who will evasion (or die, sorry warriors), holding him in place...

warriors can't drink a limited invulnerability potion and taunt him?

• Vykromond · 12/15/06, 11:45 PM

Blackheart was a lot of fun but unless there is a gimmick I'm missing its really luck based. There is a special place in hell for rogues that gleefully murder all the groups healers during the first charm. I guess I'll have a place right next to them though after the last run. I think I took out 3 people during one charm (Bestial Wrath, Rapid Fire, Multi-Shot etc.)

* Burn all cooldowns before first Incite Chaos

* Position all clothies cardinally opposite to each other to help ensure they don't shoot each other:

________________________________________________________
                                 Clothie                |
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                        |
Clothie                           RogueBlackheartWarrior|
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                 Clothie                |

* Keep all players topped off at all times (healers, bandages, consumables if necessary)

Kody · 12/16/06, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Apparation

What I'm hoping for future raid instances (25 mans) is that blizzard moves away from the conception that pretty much forces guilds to have 15x healers for nearly all encoutners (talking about 40 mans currently) and that offspecs are just not wanted. I'm hoping that blizzard will implement instances with wildly varying needs that it will make min/max'ing (people sitting outside the instance waiting to step in) so annoying that the offspecs get their chance and people can open their eyes.

Without spoiling anything, if Gruul's Lair is an indication, you won't be disappointed. It seemed to promote a balanced raid group(the first encounter anyway).

Glaurong · 12/16/06, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Vykromond

Blackheart was a lot of fun but unless there is a gimmick I'm missing its really luck based. There is a special place in hell for rogues that gleefully murder all the groups healers during the first charm. I guess I'll have a place right next to them though after the last run. I think I took out 3 people during one charm (Bestial Wrath, Rapid Fire, Multi-Shot etc.)

* Burn all cooldowns before first Incite Chaos

* Position all clothies cardinally opposite to each other to help ensure they don't shoot each other:

________________________________________________________
                                 Clothie                |
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                        |
Clothie                           RogueBlackheartWarrior|
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                                        |
                                 Clothie                |

* Keep all players topped off at all times (healers, bandages, consumables if necessary)

Spreading out certainly helps but it by no means guarantees a clean kill. Between fears, the big knockback stomps, charms and aggro wipes I'm pretty sure it is meant to be controlled chaos, a different fight each time (which is nice).

I just started dropping an ice trap behind our ginsu master rogue before the charm and more often than not he would spend the charm sitting in an iceblock.

Originally Posted by Kody

Without spoiling anything, if Gruul's Lair is an indication, you won't be disappointed. It seemed to promote a balanced raid group(the first encounter anyway).

I didn't notice it in the rules but is there an unofficial "don't spoil TBC raid encounters" rule in place before the expansion? I actually wanted to comment on some Gruul stuff but I will refrain if this is the case.

Drelegon · 12/16/06, 12:33 PM

So it looks like Blizzard has already dumbed down some of the encounters (Tavarok, maybe the damage on the trash/Hunter boss in Coilfang). I haven't run any of the instances since the L67 cap was lifted. It also looks like the new 5pc "L70 Tier 0" gear sets will do more to equalize the gear between the raiders and the general population.

As far as off-spec in a raid group, they always have a place. Raids don't require 5 healing priests, 5 healing paladins, 5 healing druids, etc. Raids require X number of people that can heal, X number that can demagic, X that can decurse, X melee DPS, X that can tank bosses/adds, X that can ranged DPS, etc. However you fill those roles is fine. We ran quite a bit with 2 druids in our raids, 1 tanking, 1 healing (our only improved MoTW), 9 priests, 5 shaman. For a while we had a shadow priest who filled a warlock/mage role. Its more about finding the best person you can that wants to fill a role and not what class they are. We are short on rogues but we have 3 great DPS warriors.

Kody · 12/16/06, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Drelegon

So it looks like Blizzard has already dumbed down some of the encounters (Tavarok, maybe the damage on the trash/Hunter boss in Coilfang). I haven't run any of the instances since the L67 cap was lifted. It also looks like the new 5pc "L70 Tier 0" gear sets will do more to equalize the gear between the raiders and the general population.

As far as off-spec in a raid group, they always have a place. Raids don't require 5 healing priests, 5 healing paladins, 5 healing druids, etc. Raids require X number of people that can heal, X number that can demagic, X that can decurse, X melee DPS, X that can tank bosses/adds, X that can ranged DPS, etc. However you fill those roles is fine. We ran quite a bit with 2 druids in our raids, 1 tanking, 1 healing (our only improved MoTW), 9 priests, 5 shaman. For a while we had a shadow priest who filled a warlock/mage role. Its more about finding the best person you can that wants to fill a role and not what class they are. We are short on rogues but we have 3 great DPS warriors.

Yeah, Tavarok has been "easy" for a while now. I suppose it depends on what you call easy, though. Doing it with my rogue which wouldn't have used any items from the zone at all it felt easy. I'd say Pandemonius is the real test of that dungeon, especially for pickups. If your group can get past him, you'll likely be able to clear the entire zone.

Zurai · 12/16/06, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by kharen

There is a special place in hell for rogues that gleefully murder all the groups healers during the first charm.

I assume it has the usual %damage boost when charmed? If so, i'm so totally respeccing combat when i get to that instance. Oneshotting people with blade flurry just never gets old (my all-time record hit is ~21k during a chromag when our curers were getting slack - i think i took out about half the raid before they killed me...).

No, because the ENTIRE group is charmed, all at the same time. It's normal damage. It lasts for around a very long 15 seconds. Even with a rogue in the group I've rarely seen anyone die during the mind control, but it weakens everyone for the 5 or so seconds it takes to get healed up once the MC drops. That's where I usually see people die.

d00dz · 12/19/06, 1:26 AM

Might be far-fetched, but would popping Dreamless Sleep pots before the charm work?

drats · 12/19/06, 2:53 AM

Originally Posted by d00dz

Might be far-fetched, but would popping Dreamless Sleep pots before the charm work?

I doubt it. I tried doing that on the nef shaman call to avoid dropping totems but it didn't work.

d00dz · 12/19/06, 3:06 AM

The mechanics are completely different though.

On Nef phase 2, he doesn't totally charm you but just makes you drop totems. Blackheart, however, controls you from what I understand.

• Belac_K · 12/19/06, 5:37 AM

Doodz, where's your ca...er profile?