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12/11/06, 5:56 PM
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#16
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Glass Joe
Gnome Mage
Silvermoon (EU)
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I think everybody had short-term depression - most guilds couldn't (or chose not to) raid for a few days afterwards, and it's frustrating going through the rigamarole of replacing addons (with every major site down) with new versions, and letting go of the few old gems that stopped working and will never be updated. However, when we actually got into Naxx and killed our farm bosses, with updated/replaced mods, it went very well. The majority of classes are happy with their new talents, and the significantly improved raid DPS is great.
It's always going to be tough adjusting to such sweeping changes, especially for the classes that received lacklustre talent changes, but WoW 2.xx can be just as rewarding for those enjoy the game and are willing to adapt.
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12/11/06, 6:00 PM
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#17
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Mike Tyson
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Varies from guild to guild, of course.
All I can say is to listen to your membership and have a feel for where people are at with regards to the game, and raiding in particular. Don't bail on raiding if you have a guild that's eager to keep progressing, but by the same token, trying to force raids when the attendance and motivation aren't there is a horrible idea.
We probably could've continued raiding -- we have close to 40 online most times now without anything scheduled, really, just because PvP is fun -- but it would've been touch-and-go with finals and such in full swing. And cancelled or undermanned raids are worse than not scheduling raids at all. I'd rather have everyone fresh and enthusiastic about the game when TBC hits, rather than on the verge of burnout with a few more epics.
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12/11/06, 6:03 PM
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#18
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ffffff
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More like I-have-a-paper-due-tomorrow-and-4-finals-next-week depression.
I would kill to have the time to do PvP right now. I already abused it when the patch first came out and now I'm hitting crunch mode.
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12/11/06, 6:08 PM
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#19
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Death Knight
Kel'Thuzad
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My guild is still raiding, we got Gluth to 20% on pre-patch Monday after our 2nd Patchwerk kill earlier in the week. Last week was different of course with Tuesday through Friday being write offs raidwise due to nonstop PvPing and server instability but we killed four bosses on Saturday and tonight we're going after our 3rd Patchwerk kill. That said, we wiped five (5) times on Vael last night...
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Things are more like they are now than they ever were before. - Dwight Eisenhower
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12/11/06, 6:08 PM
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#20
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Don Flamenco
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We have pvp groups running.
Raiding is pretty much over though. All our mods and strats need fixing and with 5ish weeks to TBC and christmas/new years wiping out a couple raid weeks we are more or less done. Sucks that they broke raiding in 2.0 so bad. Of course it doesnt help that nearly half our raid is either a rogue or warrior. Our dps kinda took it in the pants.
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12/11/06, 6:14 PM
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#21
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Super Macho Man
<>
Orc Shaman
No WoW Account
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I honestly don't see how they "broke raiding" in 2.0. Other than things requiring some adjusting (mods, decursing on Noth, and we'll see about Sapph tonight...), our raid DPS was pretty similar to what it usually is, and once people adjusted to their new UIs our raid group performance has been pretty similar to normal - we had a fairly solid 4H kill last night, Gothik dead side was spot on (live side was terrible, leading to a sloppy kill), things really felt very similar to pre-patch except that PerfectRaid not working means I have to use agUF for raidframes, which I dislike.
If you have enough people who want to keep raiding, keep raiding; the patch certainly won't stop you from doing so.
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Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
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12/11/06, 6:19 PM
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#22
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Mr. Sandman
Blood Elf Priest
Mal'Ganis
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Originally Posted by Bad Luck
More like I-have-a-paper-due-tomorrow-and-4-finals-next-week depression.
I would kill to have the time to raid right now. I already abused it when the patch first came out and now I'm hitting crunch mode.
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Same here. Since raiding guilds do draw on college students quite a bit for composition, lower attendance during this time is to be expected.
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12/11/06, 6:19 PM
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#23
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Glass Joe
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Pretty much the same here, a little of everything. We haven't raided since the patch but we have had PvP groups going around the clock, which is why I joined this guild in the first place way back when. I've been in heaven over the PvP, but the officers want to step into Naxx for just this week, just to see it. I know my personal will to raid is almost zero, and I have 100% attendance. 2 Arcane crystals and 30g just to wipe to new content for 3 nights doesnt sound fun. In all honesty I flat out can't afford it. We also lost a clutch healer, important lock and two mages this week, so the guild is downsizing a little.
When BC hits in January, before any major workload from second semester, it's going to be balls out. I can't wait. For now, I'm fine just doing Basin all day.
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12/11/06, 6:23 PM
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#24
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Von Kaiser
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From the perspective of a guild that prior to 2.0 was making happy progress in MC and the 20 man instances, PVP is the cause of doom and gloom. It makes no sense spending a few hours to try to get a Fang of the Faceless or a Gutgore Ripper when you can get a HW dagger (albeit with more work required). Despite having 30-50 people online on a normal raid night, 20 mans seldom occur. I don't believe this to be endemic to my particular guild, and imagine that most guilds who haven't made decent progress in AQ40/Naxx would be in similiar situations.
Unfortunately for some people (e.g. die hard tanks and fixed-location-only healers), this means that they're out of a job, out of demand and can't really do what they want to do. I don't believe I've seen anyone quit because of the patch as their sole reason, though "broken mods" is a conveniant and common excuse not to raid.
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12/11/06, 6:29 PM
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#25
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King Hippo
Blood Elf Hunter
Mal'Ganis
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Our raid preformance has been struggling too, though I suspect exams do have a fair bit to do with it. The pre-patch week we simply didn't do BWL (first time in a good while), and just hit up the farm stuff in AQ/Naxx. The week of the patch, we simply outright said "no raids, go relax and get PvP gear, we'll be back next week", and it's worked pretty well - two full AB groups pulling in the honor, with some individuals in AV, and everyone's been having a blast.
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12/11/06, 6:37 PM
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#26
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Kalman
I honestly don't see how they "broke raiding" in 2.0. Other than things requiring some adjusting (mods, decursing on Noth, and we'll see about Sapph tonight...), our raid DPS was pretty similar to what it usually is, and once people adjusted to their new UIs our raid group performance has been pretty similar to normal - we had a fairly solid 4H kill last night, Gothik dead side was spot on (live side was terrible, leading to a sloppy kill), things really felt very similar to pre-patch except that PerfectRaid not working means I have to use agUF for raidframes, which I dislike.
If you have enough people who want to keep raiding, keep raiding; the patch certainly won't stop you from doing so.
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When you have ~17-18 warriors and rogues on a raid the patch is pretty painful. Mages and warlocks especially got huge dps buffs, but rogues and warriors are doing considerably less.
Throw in the fact that we have to redo all our custom mods. And the fact the holidays are coming, and the fact finals are coming before that. There are not enough usable weeks of raiding left before TBC to really put in the effort to relearn content and recode mods for what 1-2 kills each? I could see it if we hadn't killed KT but we've beaten nax and everyone is against farming.
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12/11/06, 6:39 PM
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#27
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<Druid Trainer>
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I definitely feel it, although we're not having serious guild trouble.
Even a few weeks ago, I was expecting to push without stop until the last day before TBC, if necessary (our progress is such that we would have been squaring away at K'T at right about that time). I'd I and the officers did pour an enormous amount of effort into the previous few weeks, and so the did the rest of the guild. We fought down an incredibly exciting first 4H kill just before midnight last Monday (after having spent the past 5 raids or so, more than a week for us, entirely in Deathknight Wing). The guild was beyond ecstatic then--we literally spent half an hour drinking Darkmoon Special Reserve and shooting off Lunar Fireworks in the middle of Ironforge.
If not for 2.0, and the fact that it's December, there probably would have been no stopping us. As it stands though, the combination of those two things means that further progress requires an order of magnitude more effort than it should have.
And now I find myself, previously spending long hours arguing as to why we needed to spend new content instead of farm, and generally motivating people at every turn, trying to put the brakes on what I started. We have three raid weeks left that aren't ruined by holidays, it doesn't take much foresight to see that attendance will be terrible even otherwise, and 2.0 cost us a lot of efficiency in the one week we've already had. So "post-patch" depression hit me just a few days after 2.0.
I feel fine now, but mostly because I relaxed a good bit. I've decided with absolute certainty that nothing between now and TBC will ruin this for me, or change the accomplishment of getting the guild through the Horsemen (which, long story short, was far beyond any previous expectations). So I'm having fun between now and then, and telling guild members to do the same. Some people feel a bit betrayed by the sudden reversal of my "K'T or bust" attitude, but it's simply a reaction to everything that's happening in the game. As Gurg said before their last few raids of 1.0, "there's no point forcing anything at this stage of the game." Not only we end 1.0 in an enormous blaze of glory, we did it our way--four days, ending at midnight, only keeping the trials who really fit in. Pushing for Frostwyrm layer would have been a compromise, even in more favorable conditions. We had an incredible run, and Blizzard is telling us something at this point--the transition to TBC is beginning.
So we're still raiding, and I would absolutely love to see Sapphiron. But as a raid leader, the desire to detach myself from the stress of progress was too great, and I've already taken that step. We're running Loatheb tonight, and I'll run it as well as always, but if we wipe, I'll be able to keep a straight face, say "what do three epics really matter anyway?" and laugh it off. If tanks don't show up for Horsemen, we'll find something fun do to.
So my answer is to keep the right attitude about it. Evaluate now what seems realistic, and what you honestly wants to do. Most people reading this forum have been in the same situation--the great Sisyphean cycle of raid progress--for a year and a half. You can't blame anyone for wanting to get out of it. Find out how people really want to spend their time between now and the world of new content in January.
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12/11/06, 6:42 PM
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#28
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Don Flamenco
Murloc Warrior
Vek'nilash (EU)
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We somehow killed 4h today and had a 50% try on sapphiron despite having ~15 new people. I am pretty confident that we'll get sapphiron dead, thus not losing a single "farm" boss this reset.
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12/11/06, 6:44 PM
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#29
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King Hippo
Blood Elf Death Knight
Blackrock
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We went ahead and split early because, to be completely honest, our raiding core, who survived through the previous rebuild, were utterly burnt out. Right now, we're doing our best to have fun, be it PvP, leveling alts, or what have you and I think it's really helping. The patch, plus a complete refocus to PvP, has really made WoW a different game (not to mention, not running Molten Core for yet another week in a row to gear up a set of players who weren't really invested in the guild, long-term, was a bit of a turn-off to the whole raiding thing).
The only raiding I see in our near future would be some 'lets see if we can 20/15/10-man onyxia' runs to get our alts some shiny new hats that dont cost Honor Points.
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Originally Posted by Malan
I've got about half a guild that really want to continue raiding and skip all the farm content to try and down a new boss (gothik and thaddeus are the 2 we haven't cleared but have access to). The other half says "screw it I'm done."... I suspect that quite a few are going to split off before long just from being fed up with the guys that are holding us back from seeing some of the content we've been paying for.
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Eh... I know saying that I was annoyed by <Risen> (Ursin) not killing Emps, even though it would've taken one more night of attempts, would be a gross understatement; however, I'm really happy that we did break split prior to the expansion so that we could do it in an organized manner. As pessimistic as it may sound, I think that figuring out exactly what people want to do now, split-wise, is the best thing you can do, really :-/.
In any case, we've always had a good time running into you guys in AB and I'd really like to see what games will be like once we're on a closer footing damage gear-wise :).
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I am not your personal Frost Deathknight knowledge base. If you have a simple question, ask in the simple questions thread; if you have a more esoteric, specific, or complicated question, ask in the spec-appropriate thread.
My PM, WoWmail, and, especially, chat boxes are NOT the appropriate places for these questions.
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12/11/06, 6:56 PM
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#30
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Are you using Shield Block?
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I'm a little stunned by the High Warlord weapons. As a guild that runs 20-25 man content but intentionally doesn't have the numbers for BWL - Naxx, they're about 5-10 DPS better than anything else we have access to, and they're incredibly easy to get. I understand that Blizzard doesn't care too much about it considering the upcoming level 70 cap. How much do we discuss the balance on level 50 weapons now? It just doesn't matter. But how long do you envision the HWL weapons will last in to TBC? Level 64? 66? That seems very good for something so accessible.
(Granted, they might feel more accessible to me because I can join solid PvP groups, which is not the case for all players. Your mileage may vary.)
It has me debating whether to grind points to get one before they wise up and double the cost, or whether to just ignore them, save my honor until 70, and level up on items I find in TBC.
Regarding the initial question, though, we haven't seen a downturn in interest due to the patch. Put us in the "PvPing happily and resting at raiding until TBC" category.
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