Scaling boss level speculation based soley on bugged Patchwerk?

Mist · 12/12/06, 3:53 PM

A question for people interested in these kinds of things:

Was Patchwerk hitting that level 67 tank in tier 3 for 14k because of some 'boss' scaling based on level, or was he hitting him for 14k just because thats how hard Patchwerk was hitting people in that gear without consumables before the hotfix?

I'm going to lead towards the latter. I'm willing to bet that the only change made was a change to how 'yellow' physical attacks were calculated based on level. This would explain Patchwerk hitting people much harder all of a sudden, and it would also explain reports of Rogues SSing and BSing for slightly reduced damage post patch. This is more reasonable than the whole mystery level situation.

I remember from being in my mid 30s, doing those STV quests 2 weeks after the original retail release, that my Sinister Strikes always did reasonably full damage against mobs 6-7 levels above me, allowing me and another rogue to complete those Nessingwary quests many, many levels before we shoudl have. I'm willing to bet that now, in 2.0.1 or 2.0.2, that wouldn't be the same case, that the yellow attacks would have their damage more significantly reduced.

Maybe I'm completely wrong here, there does seem to be some oddity with crushing blows and such that doesn't fit my conclusion here, but is the whole 'NAXX WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE AT LEVEL 70' a bit blown out of proportion if it was based solely on the pre-hotfix Patchwerk?

♦ Praetorian · 12/12/06, 3:56 PM

I'd have to assume so. Onyxia is still a "skull" boss in TBC, right? Surely a group of 5-10 or so could go play with her at some point on the beta server and confirm/deny the speculation about some general phenomenon covering all raid bosses.

• Hamlet · 12/12/06, 4:05 PM

Yes, it's just speculation based on that one incident somebody had with Patchwerk.

It's entirely possible that the boss scaling is true, based on some reports of the behavior of Ironaya. If it is, I imagine it will be hotfixed not long after people actually run into it on live. But Patchwerk could have hit those people as hard as he did for any number of reasons. Lots of combat mechanics were being changed.

But I wouldn't worry about the "Naxx will be impossible at 70" people. Tell me, what do they know which is more than what we know?

Copernicus · 12/12/06, 4:06 PM

For an even easier test, zone into BWL and cast either Hunter's Mark, Detect Magic, or even Mind Vision on Razorgore with no +hit% gear or talents.

Ghostz · 12/12/06, 4:08 PM

Ironaya doesn't have the skull icon anymore, not too sure if thats a new change or not. She's just a level 40 elite now, and she doesn't really do anything special. (I went through her a good 5-6 times on sunday in the process of plvling my priest)

Maledict · 12/12/06, 4:11 PM

UNfortunately no - Quineloe from the EU realms has a better picture (it's in his sig on the FoH forums) but basically - priests in ZG were hitting him at level 70 for more than they were at level 60, and he was still taking crushing blows from them .

Razorgore was also tested, and he was also hitting for a lot harder on higher level tanks.

Drauk · 12/12/06, 4:14 PM

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r.../bosscrush.png

Mist · 12/12/06, 4:18 PM

Like I said, I wouldn't doubt a static % of crushing blows could be applied, but the extra normal damage they were taking could be from a number of factors, mainly that people are just taking more damage in general post patch.

Sirloin · 12/12/06, 4:24 PM

I can confirm from first-hand experience that on Beta at L70, melee hits against Molten Core bosses were glancing at a rate consistent with L73s. This was the case on Luci, Mag, Geh and Garr.

Digo · 12/12/06, 4:25 PM

Boss flags affect glancing, crushing, and spell resist rates. Bosses will still be treated as 3 levels higher than your character for these purposes; it does not raise their damage modifier. However, by virtue of new spells, higher attack power and better weapons, you'll still be able to curb stomp them with ease.

The 14k Patchwerk hits were reported by someone without raid buffs. They probably weren't even in defensive stance, if it was even a warrior in the first place. That Lon guy crying about the sky falling on the beta boards tried to test this on Razorgore and didn't even have demoralizing shout on the mob. "OMG HE'S HITTING HARDER!" Well no shit, genius. You didn't debuff him and you weren't raid buffed.

Malan · 12/12/06, 4:31 PM

Even so, the fact that the bosses are flagged as such seems to contrast with statements the CM team made much earlier in the xpack development, when it was noted that at lvl 70 there would be teams of raiders revisiting old content just to see how much smaller of a group it could be done with. Doesn't seem like that's the case if the boss is going to hit just as hard, and have the same resist/glance rates.

♦ Praetorian · 12/12/06, 4:35 PM

Er, sure it does. I think they should change those things because I'm all for a palpable sense of progression and being able to utterly destroy Onyxia at level 70 a full 2+ years after first fighting her, and glancing blows and spell resists diminish that even if they don't really have much of an impact.

Even if every boss does, say, 10% more damage to a tank than they do currently, that is nothing. Do you have any idea how much health a raid-buffed tank will have at level 70? How much higher DPS would be across the board? If the only mechanics in play are glancing, crushing, and resists, then current content will be pretty trivial.

Drauk · 12/12/06, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by Digo

Boss flags affect glancing, crushing, and spell resist rates. Bosses will still be treated as 3 levels higher than your character for these purposes; it does not raise their damage modifier. However, by virtue of new spells, higher attack power and better weapons, you'll still be able to curb stomp them with ease.

The 14k Patchwerk hits were reported by someone without raid buffs. They probably weren't even in defensive stance, if it was even a warrior in the first place. That Lon guy crying about the sky falling on the beta boards tried to test this on Razorgore and didn't even have demoralizing shout on the mob. "OMG HE'S HITTING HARDER!" Well no shit, genius. You didn't debuff him and you weren't raid buffed.

Don't forget that mob level also determines effectiveness of armor. Patchwerk is balanced against something like 70% mitigation. And for level 70 warriors against 73 level mob this is probably unrealistic without top tanking epics.

Fenrus · 12/12/06, 4:39 PM

So if something is flagged as a boss, even if it's level 5, it will crushing blow you 15% of the time? If this is intentended it strikes me as a little odd. What's the point?

Mist · 12/12/06, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Drauk

Don't forget that mob level also determines effectiveness of armor. Patchwerk is balanced against something like 70% mitigation. And for level 70 warriors against 73 level mob this is probably unrealistic without top tanking epics.

And I'm saying this isn't true. This is specifically what I think was speculation based on the bugged Patchwerk, and is wrong.