The nature of MC boss encounters will acctually need more people than maybe even BWL (way off in the future when everyone has tier 6). Sulpheron has 4 adds, with Domo and Garr having 8. That really forces raid stacking or you just need more warm bodies to stand there and press the sheep/taunt/banish button.
Believe it or not, it is possible to have 1 person tanking multiple mobs.
Yeah, our regular strategy for Garr at the moment is 1 warrior offtanking 8 adds, while another warrior main tanks Garr - no warlock banishes, no additional wars needed.
For Sulfuron/Domo, even back in the day it was considered a viable strategy to double tank mobs. Today with DN gear I regularly tank 2-3 adds usually when an undergeared green alt war dies. Given a little bit of a headstart I'm pretty sure any single DN war could tank all 4 Domo elites easily.
Let's say your level 70 tank's armor doesn't change and he's only mitigating 60% instead of 70%. Add in defensive stance on top of that and now he's mitigating 70%.
So, a top end hateful strike is 29,900.
29,900 * .30 = 8,970
If your level 70 tank has like 18,000 HP buffed, this isn't such a huge deal.
Now let's take an average hateful strike of 26,000.
26,000 * .30 = 7,800
Again, considering your tanks will have like 18,000 HP, and level 70 priests can drop gheal bombs for like 4k non-crit, this isn't such a big deal. Not to mention the increased DPS from being level 70. He'll die in like 3 minutes with 40 people.
I didn't mention that the testing I was doing in MC at level 70 was with a raid of only ~15 people and we easily cleared through Garr, so Gurg's point is very valid, at least for the lower tier raid instances.
Except you can probably 10 man the entire zone now, so I'm not sure what that says.
The nature of MC boss encounters will acctually need more people than maybe even BWL (way off in the future when everyone has tier 6). Sulpheron has 4 adds, with Domo and Garr having 8. That really forces raid stacking or you just need more warm bodies to stand there and press the sheep/taunt/banish button.
There was a video released a month ago of a group 10-manning Majordomo and Ragnaros.
Let's say your level 70 tank's armor doesn't change and he's only mitigating 60% instead of 70%. Add in defensive stance on top of that and now he's mitigating 70%.
So, a top end hateful strike is 29,900.
29,900 * .30 = 8,970
If your level 70 tank has like 18,000 HP buffed, this isn't such a huge deal.
Now let's take an average hateful strike of 26,000.
26,000 * .30 = 7,800
Again, considering your tanks will have like 18,000 HP, and level 70 priests can drop gheal bombs for like 4k non-crit, this isn't such a big deal. Not to mention the increased DPS from being level 70. He'll die in like 3 minutes with 40 people.
wow, please learn how this game works
now to add substance-
at level 70 against level 70
11k ac=~ 50-53% DR (report from dude on beta)
at level 60 against level 60
11k ac=~ 66.5% DR (ctprofiles)
same geared dude at level 70 takes about 5,000 more damage from HS than at 60 (of course that doesn't include defensive stance or the +3 level factor, and the fact that they flat out nerfed HS with the hotfix)
Believe it or not, it is possible to have 1 person tanking multiple mobs.
Especially if it's a Bear. :toot:
The thing is, it's not even that bad. A well-geared tank with 13,500 armor mitigates at 70.1% against a 63, and 67.1% against a 73. I mean, even the level 77-hitting Patchwerk of last Tuesday was killable.
Okay, I see the fallacy in the above. Under the new armor formula, a level 73 Patchwerk is mitigated as a level 59+4.5*14 = 117. Against which the 13,500 armor tank mitigates at 56%. Hmm.
Let's say your level 70 tank's armor doesn't change and he's only mitigating 60% instead of 70%. Add in defensive stance on top of that and now he's mitigating 70%.
So, a top end hateful strike is 29,900.
29,900 * .30 = 8,970
If your level 70 tank has like 18,000 HP buffed, this isn't such a huge deal.
Now let's take an average hateful strike of 26,000.
26,000 * .30 = 7,800
Again, considering your tanks will have like 18,000 HP, and level 70 priests can drop gheal bombs for like 4k non-crit, this isn't such a big deal. Not to mention the increased DPS from being level 70. He'll die in like 3 minutes with 40 people.
wow, please learn how this game works
now to add substance-
at level 70 against level 70
11k ac=~ 50-53% DR (report from dude on beta)
at level 60 against level 60
11k ac=~ 66.5% DR (ctprofiles)
same geared dude at level 70 takes about 5,000 more damage from HS than at 60 (of course that doesn't include defensive stance or the +3 level factor, and the fact that they flat out nerfed HS with the hotfix)
it's not intuitive and should be fixed
You aren't understanding. Patchwerk is not considered level 73 when determining how much you will mitigate. He is still level 63 for purposes of mitigation. The only thing that will be the same is a) glancing blow rate b) crushing blows (which PW doesn't use), and c) spell resist rates.
You aren't understanding. Patchwerk is considered level +3 when determining how much you will mitigate. He is level +3 for purposes of mitigation. The things that remain the same are a) glancing blow rate b) crushing blows (which PW doesn't use), and c) spell resist rates.
Fixed this for you. 11k AC is ~50% DR at 70. Patchwerk was HSing 67 tanks with said AC for 14kish, data that falls in line with patchwerk being a level 70 for AC purposes
Defensive stance does not take 60% reduction to 70% reduction btw.
Was this before, or after the hotfix that changed the fact he was hitting level 60 tanks (thus him being level 63) for 14000 hatefuls? As is usual with patches, things got changed that really shouldn't have at all, and HS wasn't working as intended.
Just curious if anyone has hard evidence that bosses change based on level and don't simply have static glancing/crushing/resists.
You aren't understanding. Patchwerk is not considered level 73 when determining how much you will mitigate. He is still level 63 for purposes of mitigation. The only thing that will be the same is a) glancing blow rate b) crushing blows (which PW doesn't use), and c) spell resist rates.
Defensive stance being multiplicative and not additative with armor reduction seems like a rather glaring flaw which is what I assume he was refering to.
Can someone who has level 70 friends (or thereabouts) on beta take a 5-10 man group and go play with Onyxia to settle this conclusively? Please, no more speculation. Some guy's account from beta a month ago isn't evidence. Half the posts in this thread are assuming either the truth or falsity of the proposition that the thread aims to investigate.
in the long long ago, some summer 2005, I was helping friends through Uldaman and needed a shard to summon in another, which sadly I didn't bring. I was lvl 50+ then, and Ironaya was still skull flagged. Surely enough, she did not yield a shard, while the lvl ~44 Troggs a bit later did.
This, while still anecdotal, adds some evidence that boss have a fixed level, only it's hidden. Maybe there were some changes to this back when Ironaya was unskulled (don't even know if Archaedas is still boss flagged), though, so I guess we'll still have to hope for some daring lvl 70 Dragonkillers.
Digo, do you have any evidence for your 'boss flag gives glancings/crushings but level is fixed' theory besides that it's a nice one?
With your soul shard anecdote and the fact that ZG bosses inflict crushing blows on level 69s, "boss flag gives glancings/crushings but level is fixed" is the only explanation I can think of myself.
Can someone who has level 70 friends (or thereabouts) on beta take a 5-10 man group and go play with Onyxia to settle this conclusively? Please, no more speculation. Some guy's account from beta a month ago isn't evidence. Half the posts in this thread are assuming either the truth or falsity of the proposition that the thread aims to investigate.
No problem.
I can field a shaman, druid (offtank?), prot warrior, mage, hunter and a priest....anyone else maybe feeling this, please send me a mail as Ogunn on Hellfire, and we'll all turn on combat logs. I'll then zip those up and fire them off to interested parties.
Try to aim to be around level 70 of course, and Ony keyed, and we'll figure this out. And of course, Horde.
Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
I think it has been proven with screens that bosses still cause crushing blows/glancing hits.
As for armor reduction the easy way to test is an Ony raid and compare avg dmg on live@60 and beta@70 with about the same gear.
Now, if we take Patchwerk against a tank with 11k armor (decent amount without Stoneshields imo).
Then the old dmg max for HS, 29900.
Then Def Stance
Red. vs. 63 (old formula): 65% -> 31.5% of max = 9418
Red. vs. 63 (new formula): 60% -> 36% of max = 10764
Red. vs. 73 (new formula): 48% -> 46.8% of max = 14017
If the hear say hit of 14k from patchwerk is true then it fits the dmg of a max hit from a lvl 73 Patchwerk.
The nature of MC boss encounters will acctually need more people than maybe even BWL (way off in the future when everyone has tier 6). Sulpheron has 4 adds, with Domo and Garr having 8. That really forces raid stacking or you just need more warm bodies to stand there and press the sheep/taunt/banish button.
It's not hard to hold agro over healers with demo shout spam. 1 Warrior to demo shout tank the boss and all the adds, 1 druid to bear tank the add you want to kill, someone to heal them both, and someone to DPS = 4 man Garr/Sulpheron. Domo might be slightly harder with the whole agro wipe thing.
BTW if can get a couple more druids we prolly can stealth past the warders now with our level difference.
Aren't they agro you on Ony engage, if you left them alive in tunnel somehow ?
Originally Posted by zeidrich
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
If possible it would be 100% conclusive if done twice on beta, once with a 60 tank and once with a 70 tank, with comparable stats if possible, though it's probably going to be hard to find a 60 tank on the beta realm. If the lvl 60 tank gets destroyed it might be needed to try it with a full lvl 60 group on beta (but I fear that might be hard to achieve/a LOT of work).
My final pondering on the matter:
If the boss marking does make a mob +3 levels (and that's a big 'if' to me) is that +3 levels to whomever it may be hitting/hitting it, is it +3 levels to the highest level character in the raid/zone or is it +3 levels to the tank in question (this would make the boss level variable within an encounter and would be extremely stupid if Blizzard coded it this way, regardless I think its not 100% excluded from the realm of possibility.
So would a 60 tank get destroyed by Onyxia if he was in a lvl 70 group or would he be hit just as hard as normal, conversely would a lvl 70 rogue (for example) in the same group be dealing huge damage to her or would he be DPS-ing as per usual?
12/12/06, 7:10 PM
Similar Threads
