Hunters in Naxx - Useful encounters - Page 4

Eej · 12/15/06, 12:48 AM

Actually he has a point, the title of the thread is pretty inflammatory in itself, since it implies that there are encounters where Hunters are useless. Also the vast sweeping generalizations made in the first post contribute to this whole "WoW forum thread" that some of us are noticing.

Aero · 12/15/06, 1:00 AM

Originally Posted by Eej

Actually he has a point, the title of the thread is pretty inflammatory in itself, since it implies that there are encounters where Hunters are useless. Also the vast sweeping generalizations made in the first post contribute to this whole "WoW forum thread" that some of us are noticing.

Are you implying that there is no such thing as encounters in the game, where certain classes are more useful than others?

Would you be just as offended if the post was about Rogues in Shazzrah?

You may as well say "HOW DARE YOU SAY MY CLASS ISN'T AWESOME AT EVERYTHING! I DEMAND YOU DELETE THIS THREAD!"

♦ Praetorian · 12/15/06, 1:14 AM

This thread kind of sucks. Why should it continue to exist? I'm not seeing much constructive discussion.

Teger · 12/15/06, 2:54 AM

Wow, there is a ton of misinformation in this thread, and it's kinda funny.

1. Hunters have FD as a skill because we, as said, have 0 way to control our aggro otherwise. Notice how even with FD hunters hover near the top of the meters for many fights? Yep, that's because we generate more threat than almost any other class, and without FD our DPS would be ridiculous. Even Blizzard gets this, as they're creating new skills which allow hunters to transfer threat.

2. Hunters and mana. Yes, the mana costs of our skills are expensive, but no we do not need absurd consumable use to remain top of the meters. I got #2 on Patchwerk with a non-mana tide shaman on my group using a whopping 2 major manas and 2 NDBs, a mageblood and lesser mana oil (2), and I do NOT have 6 pc Crypstalker.

3. A shadow priest is a hunter's new best friend - put a shadow priest in the hunters group and they cannot run out of mana. I got to enjoy this on Grobbulus, and I was able to use max rank Multi-Shot, Arcane Shot and Silencing Shot whenever cooldowns were up without ever dropping below 50% mana. DPS results reflected this (#2 again).

4. The fights that hunters are topping meters on are ones that cater to their strengths - you won't see hunters being #1 on Loatheb or Thaddius.

Sienna · 12/15/06, 3:08 AM

Pre 2.0 the best dps I did on PW was 565 together with Pet. With using max amount of mana regen consumables I was able to keep my mana above 70% for 7 minutes and did aimed/multi rotation with smiting. After 2.0 I did 583 dps on PW with arcane/multi rotation but ran oom around 6:30. And after that it was only arcane. I have only 2 pieces of CS so I don't regen that much mana and I'm MM build. The thing is, in a fight like PW, I can't go full out anymore because going full out would mean using a arcane+aimed+multi+silence rotation which is 1000 mana per 10 seconds give or take, impossible to sustain. The only thing I can sustain is arcane+multi or arcane+aimed. Arcane+aimed doesn't do much damage, thus arcane+multi is the only thing left for me at least until I get a bit more Tier3. And I don't believe it's possible to push it even further for me. Though we didn't have FF up the last time. With FF I probably would have done around 600-610. But in any case I don't see hunter dps going through the roof on fights like PW because our best mage did 980 dps. But on trash, that's a complete different issue now. Hunters are doing 20-30% more damage on trash now. And the traps without FD help a lot more, on fights like Gluth for example. We didn't do Loatheb yet so I'll never know what I'll do there.

Eej · 12/15/06, 3:12 AM

Originally Posted by Aero

Are you implying that there is no such thing as encounters in the game, where certain classes are more useful than others?

Would you be just as offended if the post was about Rogues in Shazzrah?

You may as well say "HOW DARE YOU SAY MY CLASS ISN'T AWESOME AT EVERYTHING! I DEMAND YOU DELETE THIS THREAD!"

I am implying that Hunters are useful for every encounter in Naxx. I know this because every boss we've killed in Naxx, we've had at least four Hunters in the raid.

I would be offended if this post was about Rogues in MC, claiming that Rogue DPS sucks because they have to take a lot of AEs.

Finally, I think that this topic is entirely pointless and that there's already a good thread for Hunter discussion going on already.

Anias · 12/15/06, 3:12 AM

Originally Posted by Teger

hunters being #1 on Loatheb

Mechanicly, hunters can certainly weight their stats towards High AP low crit if they chose, thus maximizing the gains from the buff, they also have the luxury of standing nearly on top of the spore zone for the fight, minimizing time not dpsing the mushroom. While I'm not certain that hunters would dominate the fight, they're certainly more favorably lined up than say warlocks.

It might be interesting to examine what makes a fight a good hunter fight, excluding the obvious "tranq shotting gotta be done massa" type nonsense.

I'd offer:

Fights where mobility matters (long runs on emps? Nice to be a hunter.)
Fights with on-off mechanics that allowed you to really abuse feign, either to drink or to change gear (even just trinkets) or both. (Ouro submerged, guess the hunters feign and drink/eat. Bastards.)
Fights where the tank is kiting the boss (Hunters seem to do well on aq20 buru and ossirian)
Fights with many targets but little cc (Nef stage one springs to mind - the ability to post up and always be doing _something_ productive, especially if you run the "kill it as it arrives" method seems very solid.)

Applying this schema to naxx, I'd arrive at the following as good hunter fights

Anub'rekhan
Maexanna
Gothik (dead)
Heigan
Noth
Grobulous

There are other fights where hunters get quite a bit from the mechanics of the fight and the happy interaction with their itemization, but these are the fights that really seem to allow a hunter to abuse their unique impact skills. Gluth could be added to the list with in combat trapping making frost traps more interesting, but he's a boring tranq fight...

Elendril · 12/16/06, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

And I really don't know where this "better mitigation" argument is coming from. In PvP, yeah, i'll survive a rogue or warrior beating on me longer than a mage will. In PvE, no, if I'm dumb enough to get aggro on Heigan he'll kill me as quickly as he'll kill a mage, especially since we can't pick up Deterrence or Survivalist in DPS specs anymore.

I tanked heigan from 15% til he was dead dead without deterrance before. To claim our mitigation (both in armor, hp, and dodge) is trivial is simply incorrect.

That being said, this thread sucks.

♦ Praetorian · 12/16/06, 2:24 PM

Ok, RIP thread.