Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/10/07, 4:01 PM   #76
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Tacitus
And 'lock DoT coefficients got nerfed, please update the first post.
Only Corruption and CoA were changed (95% and 120%).

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/07, 5:43 PM   #77
Snow
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Originally Posted by Tacitus
And 'lock DoT coefficients got nerfed, please update the first post.
Only Corruption and CoA were changed (95% and 120%).
Also I'm pretty sure UA is now affected by spell damage, considering I got *hit* for 2805 for dispelling an unstable affliction last night, way more than could be explained by Shadow Mastery.

I will withhold my related comments on game balance for my personal diary.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/07, 5:58 PM   #78
Jaete
Bald Bull
 
Jaete's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
So it seems that with 2.0.3 the following changes have happened:

First, the base AOE penalty is now 1/2 instead of 1/3.

Second, if an AOE spell lasts for 8 secs in some way, it gets multiplied by 0.83 in addition to the 1/2 AOE penalty. No idea why, but this fits consecration, rain of fire, flamestrike's DoT part and blizzard. This might just be a bug, or it might represent another way to calculate the coefficients for which a cleaner formulation isn't clear yet.

Third, some warlock spells and one mage spell have been messed with. The afflicted spells are corruption, curse of agony, soul fire, curse of doom and pyroblast.

(edit: more spells were messed up)

Finland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/07, 7:57 PM   #79
Jaete
Bald Bull
 
Jaete's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Things seem to be relatively clear, but I'd appreciate some help with a few spells. :) In the following I've noted the expected coefficient and derivation for easier testing. Most of these should be quite easy to verify. Thanks in advance.

Warlock:
Unstable affliction - 120% / ?? (18/15 - proc apparently scales, but dunno how)
Shadowfury - 19,3% (1.5/3.5 * 1/2 * 0.9)
Dark pact - 96% (custom)
Incinerate - 71,4% (2.5/3.5)
Seed of Corruption - 120% / 21,4% (18/15 - 1.5/3.5 * 1/2)
Pet scaling (apparently it's enough to look at the pet tab once to verify this ;))

Priest:
Power word: shield - 10% (custom)
Holy nova - 7,1% (1.5/3.5 * 1/3 * 0.5 - aoe, heal, both damage and healing)
Holy fire - 73,5% / 17,7% (402/547 * 3.5/3.5 - 145/547 * 10/15)
Prayer of healing - 28,6% (3/3.5 * 1/3 - aoe, heal)
Lightwell - 0%
Circle of healing - 14,3% (1.5/3.5 * 1/3 - aoe, heal)
Binding heal - 42,9% (1.5/3.5)
Prayer of mending - 14,3% (1.5/3.5 * 1/3 - "aoe", heal)
Shadowfiend - thoroughly unknown, probably 0%

Druid:
Tranquility - 22,2% (10/15 * 1/3 - aoe, heal)
Lifebloom - 46,7% / 42,9% (7/15 - 1.5/3.5)

Paladin:
Exorcism - 42,9% (1.5/3.5)
Holy wrath - 28,6% (2/3.5 * 1/2)

Shaman:
Flame shock - 21,4% / 17,1% (50% * 1.5/3.5 - 50% * 1.5/3.5 * 12/15)
Searing totem - 367% (55/15)
Fire nova totem - 21,4% (1.5/3.5 * 1/2 - aoe)
Magma totem - 66,7% (20/15 * 1/2 - aoe)
Healing stream totem - 133% (60/15 * 1/3 - aoe, heal)
Fire elemental totem - no idea
Earth elemental totem - unknown, if any
Water shield - unknown

(edit: searing totem, unstable affliction)

Finland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/07, 11:16 PM   #80
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
Boevis's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Tranquility is now 8 second duration, so it's now 17.77% (1/3 * 8/15)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/07, 2:40 PM   #81
Erongg
Great Tiger
 
Erongg's Avatar
 
Lorentz
Troll Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Chain heal - 23,8% (2.5/3.5 * 1/3 - "aoe", heal)
Is this 1/3 multiplier new?


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/07, 3:02 PM   #82
Lum
Bald Bull
 
Lum's Avatar
 
Illuminaire
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by ka
Originally Posted by Vema
However, mana burn does cause shadow damage, and the "damage" portion of mana burn is affected by CoS/Weaving/Imp SB and a priest will get the rewards of VT/VE from mana burn damage.
Which is not really relevant to a thread about damage coefficients.
That's not really true anyway. The shadow damage portion of Mana Burn is strictly a function of the mana taken from the target, and it is unaffected by any debuffs on the mob. Drain 200 mana, do 100 shadow damage, as per the tooltip. Period.

That's why there's no spell coefficient.

Khameir: http://i.imgur.com/J2but.jpg - I feel like I know this scenario all too well
senya: Khameir that's me but with video games instead of star wars, and something she mentions social/appstore gaming instead of saying no and either way THAT'S A WRAP
senya: and not in the contraceptive sense

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/07, 4:01 PM   #83
Nfariessence
NFARSMASH!
 
Nfariessence's Avatar
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Bleeding Hollow
Originally Posted by Jaete
Curse of Doom - 200% (60/15 * 0.5)
Is this correct? Is the [* 0.5] modifier new in 2.03? I haven't whipped out a calculator since 2.00, but I could have sworn that the modifier was 400% due to some of the regularly 10k dooms that I was getting on PW and the like, and the 29k dooms on Thaddius.

If the *0.5 modifier is there, does anyone know the reasoning for it? CoD doesn't heal, so it doesn't fall under the dmg/heal rules, and it can't be for PvP balance since CoDoom isn't castable on players.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/07, 5:05 PM   #84
Dinadass
Piston Honda
 
Dinadass's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Icecrown
Yes, curse of doom is now only 200%, instead of 400%. I don't have a good explanation for this, because it's not related to PVP in any way/shape/form, and that's where the rest of the nerfs came from.

It is now always better DPS to cast Curse of Agony in PVE than Curse of Doom. My CoD damage was previously around 5500 on normal mobs without any debuffs, now it's around 4400.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/15/07, 11:31 PM   #85
TheCrunkOne
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Thunderlord
This is more than likely not true, but is it true that a shaman's Flametongue Weapon is affected by +spelldamage?

That might actually make it a bit more well-loved...

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/16/07, 5:30 AM   #86
Kirion
Don Flamenco
 
Kirion's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Deathwing (EU)
Originally Posted by TheCrunkOne
This is more than likely not true, but is it true that a shaman's Flametongue Weapon is affected by +spelldamage?

That might actually make it a bit more well-loved...
flametongue and frostbrand affected by +dmg since shaman patch review

42.

Russia Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/16/07, 12:07 PM   #87
Dinadass
Piston Honda
 
Dinadass's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Icecrown
So now that Amp Curse works on Curse of Doom, it might still have it's uses in PVE. With 607 shadow damage and SM, normal curse of doom's are still only hitting for a little over 4k, but Amp'ed they hit for 5500 or so, and with a ToEP for just over 6k.

Also, I'm not really sure how the dispell damage for UA is calculated in regards to +damage percentage. With +803 shadow damage (trinketed) and CoS, I had one crit for 4985. That's more than 127% damage being applied, which is what the DOT portion receives. I heard it might be related to CoS stacking twice, but I'm still getting numbers higher than they should be without CoS on the target. Really weird, but I'm not going to complain. Just wish more mobs dispelled themselves... ezmode grinding would be hot.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/16/07, 4:43 PM   #88
TheCrunkOne
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Thunderlord
Originally Posted by Kirion
Originally Posted by TheCrunkOne
This is more than likely not true, but is it true that a shaman's Flametongue Weapon is affected by +spelldamage?

That might actually make it a bit more well-loved...
flametongue and frostbrand affected by +dmg since shaman patch review
Hm, so has anybody figured out the coefficient yet for Flametongue and Frostbrand?
I'm more and more liking the idea of a dual-wielding magical badass :D

If I knew how you guys came up with the coefficients, I have access to a shaman with some serious +damage gear.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/16/07, 5:15 PM   #89
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by TheCrunkOne
so has anybody figured out the coefficient yet for Flametongue and Frostbrand?
I'm more and more liking the idea of a dual-wielding magical badass :D

If I knew how you guys came up with the coefficients, I have access to a shaman with some serious +damage gear.
The damage coefficients was found out a while ago. I believe Flametongue gets 10% and Frostbrand gets 25%, but that is just a memory from when I used to play Shaman.

If you wanted to test it, use each enchant without +damage gear for about 1000 hits, then with +damage gear for about 1000 hits, and compare results. Or trust others did the work correctly ;).


On a different topic, which mobs try to dispell themselves (for sweet UA procs)?

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/17/07, 6:53 AM   #90
maxi
Piston Honda
 
maxi's Avatar
 
Goblin Priest
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
I wanted to confirm about AoE scaling. Is it 1/2 or 1/3 of +damage? If it is 1/2 than some percentages on first post seem off.

Also can someone explain again the maths behind Pyroblast's +damage scaling?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/17/07, 4:03 PM   #91
Arkest
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by maxi
I wanted to confirm about AoE scaling. Is it 1/2 or 1/3 of +damage? If it is 1/2 than some percentages on first post seem off.

Also can someone explain again the maths behind Pyroblast's +damage scaling?
It is 1/2. Looks like Jaete just hasn't updated some of the %, in particular, Cone of Cold, Blast Wave and Dragon's Breath should all be 19.3% (1.5/3.5*1/2*.9).

As for Pyroblast, it's easiest to consider the DD and DoT portions as two seperate spells.
The Pyroblast DD receives 115% of +dmg gear.
The Pyroblast DoT receives 20% (5% per tick, 4 ticks) of +dmg.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/26/07, 2:54 PM   #92
Jaete
Bald Bull
 
Jaete's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Updated with newest info, thanks everyone. Still looking for confirmation for all the stuff I asked about here.

Finland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/26/07, 2:58 PM   #93
Jaete
Bald Bull
 
Jaete's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Originally Posted by maxi
Also can someone explain again the maths behind Pyroblast's +damage scaling?
Pyroblast used to make sense; it used to be 6/3.5 * 75% for the initial damage, and 12/15 * 25% for the DoT, where 75% and 25% are how the base damage is distributed. The initial damage coef was changed to 115% in a patch recently (warlock's soul fire coef was changed similarly), but the DoT part left as it was.

Finland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 3:19 PM   #94
jewbacca
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Bloodscalp
Figured I'd throw me two cents in and say that this thread should include the order in which multipliers and additive bonuses affect spells, since it seems relevant. From my understanding its as follows.

(((Base spell+Additive mods on self)*Multipliers on self)+Additive mods on target)*Multipliers on target

Also, scaling based on level only has an effect on your side of the equation, anything on the mob gains full value no matter how low level a spell you use. This is the primary reason my paladin can still down rank rather effectively, because blessing of light is a bonus that applies regardless of spell level. The above formula has been tested also.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using two +damage trinkets frmorrison Public Discussion 5 02/14/07 10:07 PM
Should MT be in the Top 10 for Damage Done in BWL? u418936 The Dung Heap 35 09/26/06 7:18 PM
Mage damage. Epso The Dung Heap 3 09/18/06 8:24 AM