Druids and Aggro Generation - Page 2

Glaurong · 12/18/06, 5:17 PM

For most stuff I just did an ilvl 100+ search on thott and sorted by armor. Picked what seemed reasonable. I guess thott is missing a bunch of stuff.

Edit - Ahh, I dug around in some of the lower ilvl stuff (80-90) and found much more high armor items.

Umph · 12/18/06, 5:21 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

Make notice both cat form and bear form mangles currently can stack resulting in two 1.3x multipliers for damage on bleeds.

Currently (on live at least) mangles from all Druids stack.

Cryect · 12/18/06, 5:22 PM

Heh, the issue is like half the best tanking items are greens.

Lord BEEF · 12/18/06, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by ruro

Originally Posted by Cryect

Make notice both cat form and bear form mangles currently can stack resulting in two 1.3x multipliers for damage on bleeds.

Currently (on live at least) mangles from all Druids stack.

edit: oops I was calculating off of 30% mangle debuff, not 25%. Still quite abusable however.

I realize this is somewhat of a derail, but I wonder how long it'll take before this is massively abused. If you can manage to get 15 feral druids in a raid that'll result in 10,000+ per tick rips easily.

If you somehow manage to get 20 druids so all 40 debuff slots are taken from just mangles and rips it would give a 190x multiplier to bleed effects, resulting in 50,000 per tick rips (assuming a normal tick of 263). With 20 druids that's 500,000 raid DPS. You could do loatheb without any consumables. Hell you could kill most bosses within the 12 second period of the first rip.

Cryect · 12/18/06, 5:43 PM

Sounds like something fun that should be tried out.

Cryect · 12/18/06, 6:06 PM

Tested and gathered swipe AP contributions from level 1 bunnies with Faerie Fire on them. (Line fitting matched for 0 AP at ~110 as expected).

Evert · 12/18/06, 6:26 PM

I totally approve of killing bunnies in the name of science. as well as stacking a raid with 20 feral druids.

Tyvi · 12/18/06, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

For most stuff I just did an ilvl 100+ search on thott and sorted by armor. Picked what seemed reasonable. I guess thott is missing a bunch of stuff.

Edit - Ahh, I dug around in some of the lower ilvl stuff (80-90) and found much more high armor items.

Don't confuse the Druids tanking 5-20 mans in DPS gear for the Druids wearing full mitigation gear in 40 man raids.

Imagine a Druid tank having a scale like this:

[----------------------------------------------------------------------]
Max Threat Max Mitigation

Usually in hard content it will look like this:

[---------------------------------------------------------------------|-]
Max Threat Max Mitigation

(Note I am just talking about gear not buffs. I don't remember the last time I had issues in Max Mitigation gear either though because buffs and Sunder do help alot.)

Melthar · 12/18/06, 6:40 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

Originally Posted by ruro

Originally Posted by Cryect

Make notice both cat form and bear form mangles currently can stack resulting in two 1.3x multipliers for damage on bleeds.

Currently (on live at least) mangles from all Druids stack.

edit: oops I was calculating off of 30% mangle debuff, not 25%. Still quite abusable however.

I realize this is somewhat of a derail, but I wonder how long it'll take before this is massively abused. If you can manage to get 15 feral druids in a raid that'll result in 10,000+ per tick rips easily.

If you somehow manage to get 20 druids so all 40 debuff slots are taken from just mangles and rips it would give a 190x multiplier to bleed effects, resulting in 50,000 per tick rips (assuming a normal tick of 263). With 20 druids that's 500,000 raid DPS. You could do loatheb without any consumables. Hell you could kill most bosses within the 12 second period of the first rip.

Even with 25% mangle, 20 druids = ~86.74times damage. That's 22812 damage/tick for each druid or about 225k raid DPS, 2.7mill damage over 12s..

You'd better hope there's a couple of tanks with some +spellhit gear, because they're going to need that taunt..

Now.. if we could get 20 ferals on thaddius..

Back on topic. I am really looking forward to seeing the final figures on lacerate threat and what the multiplier is like. Easiest test I guess would be to have someone else do a certain amount of white damage to a target, then try and pull using only lacerate. This at least should give an indication of whether the bonus threat is applied on tick, or if it's upfront bonus threat + regular damage-threat for each tick.

Boevis · 12/18/06, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Melthar

Even with 25% mangle, 20 druids = ~86.74times damage. That's 22812 damage/tick for each druid or about 225k raid DPS, 2.7mill damage over 12s..

You'd better hope there's a couple of tanks with some +spellhit gear, because they're going to need that taunt..

Now.. if we could get 20 ferals on thaddius..

Back on topic. I am really looking forward to seeing the final figures on lacerate threat and what the multiplier is like. Easiest test I guess would be to have someone else do a certain amount of white damage to a target, then try and pull using only lacerate. This at least should give an indication of whether the bonus threat is applied on tick, or if it's upfront bonus threat + regular damage-threat for each tick.

Reminds me of Gurg's 38 Enhancement Shamen (38 Stormstrikes), 1 Elemental, 1 Tank for 3m Lightning Bolts ... why you have a tank is beyond me, untauntable mobs mean the elem shaman has aggro.

My early calculations for Lacerate with 1000 AP, a 30% Mangle increase, and the standard 75% increased threat placed it as the same TPR with a 5 stack as Maul. Maul can crit, but lacerate ignores armor, in the end they're fairly similar.

squiffy · 12/18/06, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by Melthar

Even with 25% mangle, 20 druids = ~86.74times damage. That's 22812 damage/tick for each druid or about 225k raid DPS, 2.7mill damage over 12s..

You'd better hope there's a couple of tanks with some +spellhit gear, because they're going to need that taunt..

I think a raid of 20 ferals saving 5 point rips for when Onyxia hits 68% would be the perfect time to abuse it.

Zyla · 12/18/06, 7:27 PM

I wonder what would happen if you killed onyxia in phase two :D

Anias · 12/18/06, 7:31 PM

Not my observed behavior on beta, not specced feral on live to test it there. =P

Anias · 12/18/06, 7:43 PM

Originally Posted by Zyla

I wonder what would happen if you killed onyxia in phase two :D

Um, she crashes into the ground, nose first.

I'll see if I can dig up a screenshot, but it's been a while. We might have had a heavy warlock raid.

Glaurong · 12/18/06, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by Liar

Originally Posted by Glaurong

For most stuff I just did an ilvl 100+ search on thott and sorted by armor. Picked what seemed reasonable. I guess thott is missing a bunch of stuff.

Edit - Ahh, I dug around in some of the lower ilvl stuff (80-90) and found much more high armor items.

Don't confuse the Druids tanking 5-20 mans in DPS gear for the Druids wearing full mitigation gear in 40 man raids.

Imagine a Druid tank having a scale like this:

[----------------------------------------------------------------------]
Max Threat Max Mitigation

Usually in hard content it will look like this:

[---------------------------------------------------------------------|-]
Max Threat Max Mitigation

(Note I am just talking about gear not buffs. I don't remember the last time I had issues in Max Mitigation gear either though because buffs and Sunder do help alot.)

Bumped the searches up to include epics from TBC and was able to get to 20k armor, 14k health and 2500 AP. I left the spreadsheet at work but dodge and defense was pretty decent too.