Prologue:
This all started as two friends of mine, a paladin and a priest were arguing over a beer as to which of them is the better healer. As beers were flowing so was the course of the argument, introducing "imba" talents from both sides of the table, sets bonuses, even a legendary somewhere came along.
Obviously every one of the four healing classes is better in a certain aspect of healing, but I thought, what if I could put them up all together on a table, and try to measure them up. I decided to develop a tool that could allow a healer calculate what he could expect with different levels of gear, talents, while he is heavily raid and world buffed, chain-choking consumables or when he is just trying to duo scarlet with a warrior friend.
When I started gathering information and coding it all in, I ran into a dozen questions, some of them I successfully answered and some of those answers were surprising, but some still remain a mystery. After a few days of work I currently believe I now have a viable data sheet to be experimented with and thus decided to take a short timeout, introduce this tool to a community that I hope will find it useful, ask those questions that still remain a mystery and maybe hear a suggestion or two on how to improve this or perhaps add an interesting feature.
Please be aware that it isn't finished, there are still a few things unmodeled (regrowth, world buffs and cool-down abilities as major points) and a bug or two may appear, but there are also quite a lot in there - most of the talents, raid buffs, personal buffs, target buffs, heals up to level 70, prepared stats of tier1,2,3 equipment for comparing, idols, totems, librams and many things more.
And now, to the questions part, answers to which I would be more then happy to know :)
1. It is a known fact that the last patch introduced a new penalty - spell_level+6/char_level. But, this formula is wrong for HoT spells. I was unable to find perfect linear dependency, but my tests show it to be almost identical to spell_level+11/char_level. Can anyone confirm this?
2. How does penalty for spells under level 20 works? I found 3.75% penalty for each level under 20 on wowwiki, but simple testing showed me it's wrong. I was also unable to find a linear dependency.
3. What is the int-per-crit rating for all (healing) classes? I found various sources showing different numbers, and after trying to verify it, I came up with even stranger numbers. Hence the last patch we are able to see spell crit in the char sheet, I thought finding it out would be easier, but it wasn't. I also think that int-per-crit ratio was raised in the last patch for the paladin class.
4. Is it correct to assume BaseMana for all healing classes as 1096?
5. Are mana reduction effects additive or multiplicative? For example - druids 4 piece tier 3 bonus and there mana reduction talents.
6. Same as 5 but for stats modifiers. For example - enlightenment, spirit of redemption, kings buff.
7. In my tests it showed up that on-target-buffs (blessing of light, amplify magic) do not get penalties like the usual +healing gear from lower/faster spells. This being a huge bonus to the paladin class with there personal blessing. Can anyone else confirm this, and do you think this is intended functionality?
Looking forward to hear from you guys, and thanks in advance :)
6. Same as 5 but for stats modifiers. For example - enlightenment, spirit of redemption, kings buff.
7. In my tests it showed up that on-target-buffs (blessing of light, amplify magic) do not get penalties like the usual +healing gear from lower/faster spells. This being a huge bonus to the paladin class with there personal blessing. Can anyone else confirm this, and do you think this is intended functionality?
I cannot access your spreadsheet, perhaps post it on savefile (or a different free hosting site) as well?
I can answer two of your questions:
6. Kings stacks with all buffs like Spirit of Redemption, so 10% after everything else.
7. Before the 2.0 patch, BoL gave +400 to HL and +100 to FoL, no idea if it is the same now for all ranks of heals, but I know it works as stated with max rank FoL. Amp Magic worked like BoL as well (but with all healing spells), not sure of current operations.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Prologue:
1. It is a known fact that the last patch introduced a new penalty - spell_level+6/char_level. But, this formula is wrong for HoT spells. I was unable to find perfect linear dependency, but my tests show it to be almost identical to spell_level+11/char_level. Can anyone confirm this?
The level of the spell is not the same level at which you buy it. The same applies to gear. The ilvl of the gear is defiantely not the same as the level upon which you can equip it. Almost all HoTs are 6 levels apart. The actual level of most spells is one level less than the level upon which you can buy the next rank (i.e. the spell you buy doesn't get weaker as you level up).
Thus the 5 levels of difference and 6 levels of margin is why you get 11. Therefore there is NOTHING wrong with the forumla and works exactly as intended.
The level of the spell is not the same level at which you buy it. The same applies to gear. The ilvl of the gear is definitely not the same as the level upon which you can equip it. Almost all HoTs are 6 levels apart. The actual level of most spells is one level less than the level upon which you can buy the next rank (i.e. the spell you buy doesn't get weaker as you level up).
Thus the 5 levels of difference and 6 levels of margin is why you get 11. Therefore there is NOTHING wrong with the formula and works exactly as intended.
Hm. I have used thottbot as a DB to gather info about all the healing spells, and assumed that the level written in the spell description (Example - renew rank 8 - http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=10928) is the one that was meant by Blizzard. What you say does make sense I admit, but where from can you find this level then, and why the same doesn't apply to direct heal spells? Or does it?
It does apply to direct heal spells too. See this blue post:
In the Burning Crusade, we’ve decided to make a fundamental change to the way spells calculate the bonus they receive from +healing and +spell damage effects and items. This is because we have seen a growing trend in using “downranking” and large amounts of +healing items, which we feel negatively impacts game balance. Downranking involves high-level players using lower level spell ranks and +healing gear to conserve mana, but maintain a high rate of healing done. Through this method, it has become possible in the live game for healing characters to heal large amounts of damage indefinitely without running out of mana. To maintain progression of use through spell ranks, we are changing how lower ranked spells relate to characters of higher level.
Spells will now receive a smaller bonus from +healing and +spell damage based on a comparison of the level at which the spell was learned and the caster’s current level. Take the Priest spell Heal 2 as an example:
The spell is learned at level 22, and the base points for healing on the spell keep increasing until level 27. So, level 27 is considered the spell’s max level in our calculation.
This system gives an additional 6 levels of slack before applying any penalty to casting Heal 2; so, players up to level 33 can cast it with no penalty.
In this example, we will use level 34 (one level past the cast level of the spell) as a starting point.
The bonus from +healing is multiplied by this ratio:
((spell level)+6)/(player level)
That means the level 34 player only gets 97% of the normal bonus from +healing items when casting Heal 2. A level 60 player would only get 55% of the bonus, while a level 70 would get 47%.
The exact same system will also apply to damage spells. However, as healing classes tend to use downranking more often than others, healers are likely to see more effect from this change than other classes. As a general rule, players will be able to use the top 2 or 3 ranks of each spell before receiving any penalty. All of the existing ratios for the +healing and +spell damage bonuses on spells are also still in effect; so spells with a short casting time will continue to receive a smaller bonus than spells with a longer casting time. Spells learned below level 20 will still receive substantially smaller bonuses.
7. In my tests it showed up that on-target-buffs (blessing of light, amplify magic) do not get penalties like the usual +healing gear from lower/faster spells. This being a huge bonus to the paladin class with there personal blessing. Can anyone else confirm this, and do you think this is intended functionality?
This is true. Rank 1 Flash of Light gains as much from Blessing of Light as rank 6 FoL does for example. However, it isn't a huge bonus after patch 2.0 since there is already a penalty for down ranking and you tend to avoid low ranks anyway. For me at least it would hardly matter at all if they penalized BoL for down ranked heals.
3. What is the int-per-crit rating for all (healing) classes? I found various sources showing different numbers, and after trying to verify it, I came up with even stranger numbers. Hence the last patch we are able to see spell crit in the char sheet, I thought finding it out would be easier, but it wasn't. I also think that int-per-crit ratio was raised in the last patch for the paladin class.
Int per crit was changed for Paladins. It is now 39.5 Int per crit @ 60. I understand it to be much worse @ 70 but I it has been a long time since the figures were posted in beta forums.
2. How does penalty for spells under level 20 works? I found 3.75% penalty for each level under 20 on wowwiki, but simple testing showed me it's wrong. I was also unable to find a linear dependency.
The 3.75% per level figure is from before the change to the new penalty system. I thought that the old "sub level 20" system was entirely replaced by the new formula but I never tested it myself to see if there is an additional penalty for sub level 20 spells.
Not to be a hater but this just seems to do the same calculations multiple other +heal/gear spreadsheets/sites do already. Good work but it's been done. I was expecting some kind of interesting combat log parsing analysis comparison thingo from the title.
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You'r missing Chain Heal and 'Imp Chain Heal' talents for shamans, as I've experienced that rank 1 CH with a decent amount of +heal and imp CH is my most efficient way of raid healing these days.
You'r missing Chain Heal and 'Imp Chain Heal' talents for shamans, as I've experienced that rank 1 CH with a decent amount of +heal and imp CH is my most efficient way of raid healing these days.
How would you suggest to calculate the total effect of Chain Heal ? Just to take it's base healing and multiply by (1+0.5+0.25) ?
Does it have any additional penalties for +healing gear besides the usual spell_level and casting_time ?
If you could add to this a live example of +heal, your spec, and your actual healing values, it could be great.
Chain heal is the the shamans secret weapon and something alliance players dont understand. Its normal to see horde raids with laser beams crisscrossing the raid.
Now to calculate it you have to take into account the 3 parts ten storms bonus. A normal chain heal gives 175% of the base heal on 3 jumps. With 3 TS it 100% on the initial target, 65% on the 2nd, and 42.25% on the 3rd. Thus 207.25%.
The major benefit of chain heal comes from its interaction with +heal. Now suppose I have 800 +heal and the spell has a 2.5s cast, it gains 10% from purification and 20% from improved chain heal.
The base heal is 606.5 so the first target gets a heal fo (606.5 + 800*(2.5/3.5))*1.1*1.2 = 1554.9. Multiply this for the jumps we get a total of 3222 hp for 384 mana, 8.39 hp/mana, 1288 hp/s. The other big advantage is the server decides who the jumps goto meaning they are always directed at the right person leading to very little overheal.
No other spell in the game gains as much from +heal as chain heal does. In most raids shamans will be casting this spell far more than anything else. As the shamans main heal it needs to represented accurately. Its the single reason shamans regualarly top the heal meters and the reason shamans have nothing to worry about when paladins join the horde. I would dread to do gothik dead side without this spell.
The level of the spell is not the same level at which you buy it. The same applies to gear. The ilvl of the gear is definitely not the same as the level upon which you can equip it. Almost all HoTs are 6 levels apart. The actual level of most spells is one level less than the level upon which you can buy the next rank (i.e. the spell you buy doesn't get weaker as you level up).
Thus the 5 levels of difference and 6 levels of margin is why you get 11. Therefore there is NOTHING wrong with the formula and works exactly as intended.
Hm. I have used thottbot as a DB to gather info about all the healing spells, and assumed that the level written in the spell description (Example - renew rank 8 - http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=10928) is the one that was meant by Blizzard. What you say does make sense I admit, but where from can you find this level then, and why the same doesn't apply to direct heal spells? Or does it?
The level of the spell used in the formula is the level at which the spell stops improving and its base effect maxes out. This is always 1 level before you receive the next rank of the spell, traditionally this is receipt level +5 for most direct healing and HoT spells, receipt level +7 for Holy Light, Flash of Light and Lesser Healing Wave, receipt level +9 for Prayer of Healing and Tranquility and finally receipt level + 5 7 or 6 for Chain Heal since they plotted that spell out really weirdly.
So as Trepidati0n already said the downranking formula works fine it's just not very transparent.
Blessing of Light works as it did pre-2.0: It adds the full amount of the blessing to any heal obtained after level 20. The value is reduced linearly if the spell is obtained before level 20 (with 0% at level 0). In practice Paladins are still the most efficient single target healers due to HL4 still working more or less the same as before (even better than before, due to Light's Grace). Furthermore, Healing Light also seems to multiply this bonus (which is expected, since it should be applying the factor at the end of the calculation now).
Whether this is intended or not is difficult to answer. However, the downranking still does not scale since the amount added by further +healing is still significantly penalized. After a certain point in +healing, higher spell ranks will still be more efficient. At least in theory therefore this problem should be addressed automagically by level 70 in TBC, and should not require specific intervention. It does require a lot of +healing for the higher rank spells to be strictly better, but it'll likely be more practical to use the bigger heals long before that. I currently use HL4 and HL9 exclusively, but the rate I use those spells have changed after the patch (few less HL4s and a few more HL9). I imagine that balance will continue to shift in TBC - I do however expect to use some form of low rank HLs to maintain Light's Grace, at the very least.
Regarding int/crit, I believe all spellcasting classes have the same ratio: 59.5 int to 1% crit. Pre-patch Paladins had a much more generous ratio (generally estimated around 29.5), but a simple test with Blizzard's new caster information display demonstrates that the ratio is now around 60.
With respect to the above Healing Wave calculation: I didn't think level 40 spells received full +healing at 60 post-patch.
Regarding int/crit, I believe all spellcasting classes have the same ratio: 59.5 int to 1% crit. Pre-patch Paladins had a much more generous ratio (generally estimated around 29.5), but a simple test with Blizzard's new caster information display demonstrates that the ratio is now around 60.
With respect to the above Healing Wave calculation: I didn't think level 40 spells received full +healing at 60 post-patch.
The int/crit is not exactly 59.5, but it is close enough for quite calculations.
I am confirm that Pallys now have the around 59.5 int per crit.
Level 50 spells get the full +damage/healing now at 60.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Turning Innervate on gives me a rediculous amount of mana to start off with and doesn't seem to effect mana regen. You may want to check to make sure your multiplying spirit and not int.
1. All spells have a standard coeficient of (Level you buy the next rank + 5/60) As far as I know, this is the same as (Level you can buy the spell + 11)/60
2. Below 20 seems to be 3.75% per level penalty (multiplicative) for all druid spells
3. Druids are Int/49.5 + .5%
4. If 1 Int = 15 Mana then druids have 964 base mana (before the base stats of 95 Int) However much like how 10 Str of mine contributes 0 AP, I'm sure there's some stupid thing with the way Int works.
5. Mana reduction is Multiplicative, but some spells (Healing Touch 11 ends up being 696 instead of the expected 698) don't work out properly.
6. Kings stacks with ZG Buff and all class related +% stat talents (HoTW), Darkmoon Faire buff (stats) only effects base stats and thus sucks majorly
7. no clue
Empowered Talents don't Add to the Casting Coef (cast/3.5 or tics/5) they multiply, so while HT at higher ranks is still 3.5/3.5 * 1.2 = 1.2, Rejuv becomes 4/5 * 1.2 = .96. All versions of Empowered talents work this way.
Druids have a LOT more healing talents than just the ones you listed. OOC, Moonglow, Lunar Guidance, Dreamstate, Nurturing Instinct, Heart of the Wild, Survival of the Fittest
Turning Innervate on gives me a rediculous amount of mana to start off with and doesn't seem to effect mana regen. You may want to check to make sure your multiplying spirit and not int.
That is due to how i modulate Innervate.
In the end, getting innervated means receiving X mana, and I saw no reasons preventing me to calculate and add that X to mana pool at fight start.
The int/crit is not exactly 59.5, but it is close enough for quite calculations.
I am confirm that Pallys now have the around 59.5 int per crit.
Originally Posted by Ngita
Int per crit was changed for Paladins. It is now 39.5 Int per crit @ 60. I understand it to be much worse @ 70 but I it has been a long time since the figures were posted in beta forums.
So one says it's 39.5, the other says it's 59.5, and I in my own tests see 48.5. Great.
Any suggestions as to why we see so different numbers?
After doing a few tests with different ranks of Renew with varying +healing gear, and 3/3 Imp Renew, I can confirm that those ranks of Renew acquired below level 20 receive a 3.75% penalty per level below 20. (eg. Renew rank 1 (a level 8 spell) receives a 45% penalty, Renew rank 2 (a level 14 spell) receives a 22.5% penalty)
The (1) casting penalty, (2) < level 20 penalty, and (3) "healing nerf" penalty are all applied directly to the +healing amount. This is then added to the base of the spell, after which talents are applied.
Just ran a short test on my paladin (the information comes from the Blizzard character sheet):
With just BoKings (note from below that Kings does act as a multiplier to talents):
367 Int - 12.13% crit (however, I have +2% crit from my Mageblade and LB 5 set bonus, so this is actually 11.13%)
Without buffs, but with gear:
334 Int - 11.51% crit (again, +2% from non-int sources)
Without gear or buffs:
77 Int - 4.76%
Note that I have Divine Intellect, so all those values are 10% greater than base. This can be trivially verified by unequipping a piece of gear with more than 10 int.
Parsing those points gives a 54 int to 1% crit ratio.
Edit: Note that 0 int does NOT correspond to 0% crit. It's necessary to actually get two points (preferably with a large separation in int) without assuming 0 int = 0 crit.
12/18/06, 2:58 PM
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