i agree that stam is great for pvp but as far as hunters go having a balance between high stam and ap should be top priority with crit being a close 2nd. with so many people mindset on stacking stam and resilience it's going to be tough for hunters to put out some lethal burst dps.
a bit off-topic: what i noticed was that the arena set for hunters lacks hit rating so i hope our other slots can fill in that hole in the hit rating department. i just can't stand seeing 'Miss' on one of my shots, especially on a clutch moment.
btw, what's the hit rating required for ranged to not miss at all (without debuffs, i.e. insect swarm, scorpid sting) for lvl 60 and 70 in pvp?
I am fairly certain that that so long as the target isn't wearing +def, 50 hit rating @ 60, and 70 hit rating @ 70, for hunter ranged attacks.
Also, I remember PvPing back in the day with 6% to hit and I'd miss Scatter Shots once in a while. 5-7% seems to be relatively safe in terms of generally not missing, however.
That shows me to use rounded numbers. Actually, I used entirely incorrect numbers...
And I've noticed missing a shot here and there, so taking a few extra points of +hit may be good.
Isn't it pretty normal to miss some times even with capped +Hit? I always thought there is no 100% Hit guarantee or no 100% chance to not get crit - only pretty close to that.
Isn't it pretty normal to miss some times even with capped +Hit? I always thought there is no 100% Hit guarantee or no 100% chance to not get crit - only pretty close to that.
Melee/ranged physical attacks haven't had a +hit cap for a while. It is possible to reach 100% hit rate on those. Spells, meanwhile, cap at 99% hit, AFAIK. The occasional miss could possibly be due to AoE/avoidance talents, or +def gear.
As a hunter, I'd stack stamina, agi/ap/crit, a little more +hit than absolutely necessary, with resilience as a by-product of what happens to be on pvp gear. Hunters are fairly low on the assist train totem pole, unless they demonstrate a particular lethality.
I don't intend to stack stamina or resilience, honestly (though I'll swap in near-equivalent pieces to pick up a few more HP here and there). The HP inflation is more than enough to give healers time to cover me, from what I've seen; hell, my healers can usually keep me alive when I'm at 4.5-5.5k HP even with instagibs, I can't imagine them having much trouble with me at 7.5-8.5k, given that damage hasn't inflated anywhere near as much as HP. I have a one minute cooldown anti-castergib, and a five minute cooldown anti-meleegib; I'm gonna be fairly hard to burst down.
I'll glass-cannon along, basically.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
There seems to be an important point missing from the discussion, or at least not enumerated well enough: it all depends on your team makeup.
Every team will undoubtely have its own strategy. And I'd wager that most, or at least many, of the teams you face will be imbalanced in some way or another towards a particular tactic. Just as an example, a heavy DPS group. The entire point of this group is to kill you before you kill them. Being effective in that group stategy isn't as much about survival as it is execution and raw damage; a mage in a group like this would be better off stacking insane damage, since his sole purpose is likely to be to be part of an instagib train on 1-2-3 of their players.
The reverse of this, a survival group, would probably wish to stack stamina in order to outlast their opponent until their burst or "nova" is over, then return fire and widdle them down.
Towards the paladin discussion, again it is entirely dependent upon your group and situation. If I am the only healer, then yeah, I need to have some crazy stamina, but also good +heal to burst heal effectively. If I am a support healer, often times I am better off in good Ret gear (by good I mean high damage, sufficient spell power, and a decent mana pool - a hard combo to get) spot healing my primary healer/others while I help with the melee assist.
To bust out a cliche, sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and there is a point at which the survivability tradeoff is not worth the loss in either utility or damage. Naturally the healer is blamed if someone died because they fired off a mindblast/crusader strike to finish an enemy off, but there are many, many situations where that extra x damage to finish someone off, rather than letting them get healed to full, is a better use of your 3 seconds than casting a heal, even if you lose a teammate doing so (depending on what you are attacking and what you lost). Personally that is why I enjoy playing the hybrid healer class in the first place - you have to make those tough decisions, and it separates great players from average ones.
Originally Posted by Kalman
I don't intend to stack stamina or resilience, honestly (though I'll swap in near-equivalent pieces to pick up a few more HP here and there). The HP inflation is more than enough to give healers time to cover me, from what I've seen; hell, my healers can usually keep me alive when I'm at 4.5-5.5k HP even with instagibs, I can't imagine them having much trouble with me at 7.5-8.5k, given that damage hasn't inflated anywhere near as much as HP. I have a one minute cooldown anti-castergib, and a five minute cooldown anti-meleegib; I'm gonna be fairly hard to burst down.
I'll glass-cannon along, basically.
Personally I think this is the best idea for DPSers. If you start sacking your entire purpose (CC, damage, whatever) in order to gain a few more hp, you have missed the point. Besides, blanket talents (iceblock, divine shield, cloak of shadows, evasion) will do way more to keep your character alive in most situations than 400 more hp, and are thusly far more important in this type of setting.
Paladin hunger for stamina is really a product of its absence on our actual gear (case in point - http://www.thottbot.com/?set=389 vs http://www.thottbot.com/?set=402). While the current rank 13 set is excellent gear - you'll find good use for every piece and as a whole, it's hardly the best pvp healing set you could dream up (best at same ilvl would be something like wrath with int instead of str)
Looking at the gladiator sets - spellpower and healing one in particular, kind of makes it a blind choice right now: levels of stamina on either set are unprecedented, far beyond anything we can equip right now tier 3 excluded. Very few people have (and will ever have) past 4 pieces of tier 3. For example right now out of my bags the most stamina I can get out of my helmet slot is helm of endless rage at 29 - not something I'm going to wear for pvp healing though, I'd have to do with my rank 13 at 21. Lamellar (spellpower) helmet has 51 stamina and Ornamented (healing) has I think 46. Right now I have to scrape for stamina to break 5k hp unbuffed which is a pathetic figure to begin with for all the other classes (hunters never give a second thought to pvping with prestor's, I used to put my ossirian neck away for AV neck because of 10 stam). I have no way of knowing wether I'll need every bit of stamina with this new gear, it sure sounds like a lot. On the other hand spellpower set has even less int than my stuff has right now, and if I'm not running out of mana now (which I am), doesn't mean I won't be at 70 since new spells bring new mana costs. Right now I'm leaning on the more stamina the better. The +healing gained by the healing set is a nonissue at paltry 90 odd +healing for 5 pieces.
That was my 2 cents for stamina, now resillience. It's a tough cookie, it's not something I can quantify for myself at this point. It's a proc bonus. This is not like pve when you could get enough of this bonus so that stuff would never happen to you. You will always get crit. I can't justify going heavy resillience for mitigation for myself honestly. What I'm most afraid of in pvp is getting assisted on, I don't really bother to check how much I get crit. Sure once in a while I catch a couple of fireballs for gazzilion damage and die, it doesn't bother me that much and it's not like resillience is ever going to eliminate it. Stamina will.
My personal opinion is at least for healing stam and int are king. Everything else is icing.
Sorry if this is too conceptual, but I figure nobody has a phd on the matter.
While we are at this discussion, i checked the arena priest sets (Investiture and Raiment) and the difference between them is:
Investiture has 200 healing and 15 mana regen.
Raiment has 128 damage and healing.
My initial idea was to focus on healing gear, so i can improve my HPS in pvp combat, but the difference is so minor (with the budge being expent on regen) that i am not sure if it is worth it. What is your take on this?
72 healing is minor to you? I mean, I can understand the dissappointment in ilevel allocation to a stat that you consider unoptimal (ask me about Shaman gear) but 72 healing is a decent difference to me.
Considering healing is a low-priority stat for PvP, that alone isn't likely to make me take the healing set, unless I have strong damage pieces from elsewhere. Are all the other stats equal?
EDIT: Checked, and apparently, they are. Yep, it seems likely that I will grab the damage set first in that case. The healing set will still be the better PvP healing set, but by such a small margin that improving overall solo/duo damage output with the nuker set is tempting. It's not like you will do raids with these sets anyhow.
with my current gear i never miss in pvp, even with scorpid sting or insect swarm on me. i'm not sure how good the zg head/leg enchants will be compared to the upcoming ones in tbc but i'll keep extra just in case i'm lacking the hit rating. would it be wise to make a Biznicks scope (+30 ranged hit rating) for now or are the other scopes better? the only good-looking scopes i see are the +12 dmge scope and the +28 crit rating scope.
72 is not little, but when you factor that you are losing the possibility of being more viable in solo/duo situations for increased efficiency in full parties, it makes me wonder which one will be better.
Let's assume that you go full healing and get 1000 healing or you go damage and get 600 damage. Is the added 400 healing efficiency (about 125 HPS on Prayer of Mending in a target without MS or wound poison) worth the ability to use a SW:D to finish off a target or an increase in more than 50% in SW:P damage?
In general i would rather get healing power, but since they are "wasting" the item budget on mana regen, that will be useless in arenas, it makes me wonder, as pointed out before, because we are not getting a direct and efficient convertion, but a rather inefficient one.
a guildie of mine who plays beta said at lvl 70, 40 resilience = -1% dmge taken from crits. in full hunter gladiator gear and general boots, belt, and bracers gives me 136 resilience which is 3.4%. is that worth it? cuz it seems like going t4 would be better.
01/06/07, 1:14 PM
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