TBC Tanking Movies - Druid Tanking by Athinira

Athinira · 01/01/07, 12:37 PM

They have been up for some time now on the EU Druid forums, but i figured i might as well post them here.

I play a level 70 druid on the US Beta (my chars are on EU servers though), and have therefore decided to FRAPS some tanking of different instances in TBC as a druid. I have loads of FRAPS material, but only 5 instances are edited so far.

The first 3 movies listed were frapsed tanking instances below my own level (level 60-65 instances tanked as level 67-68). Rest is tanked at level 70. I used various specs to do this, including specs without Feral Instinct, all was done with more than 41 points in feral though.

Hellfire Citadel - Hellfire Ramparts (level 60-62):
http://files.filefront.com/2___Hellf.../fileinfo.html
Lowest level TBC instance there is.

Coilfang Reservoir - Slave Pens (level 61-63):
http://files.filefront.com/3___Slave.../fileinfo.html
Lowest level instance in Coilfang Reservoir.

Coilfang Reservoir - The Underbog (Level 62-64):
http://files.filefront.com/4___The_U.../fileinfo.html
http://files.filefront.com/4___The_U.../fileinfo.html
This instance is split up in 2 x Rar Files (goto Rarsoft and grab WinRar if you don't have it), so you have to download two files. Its a mid level instance in Coilfang Reservoir.

Hellfire Citadel - Shattered Halls (level 70-72):
http://files.filefront.com/Shattered.../fileinfo.html
I lost some Fraps material for this once, so its VERY short, showing 2 pulls and one boss. Shattered Halls consists of large multi mob pulls, and i originally put this movie together to show some of the multi mob pulls you will be dealing with as a tank.

Coilfang Reservoir - The Steamvaults (level 70-72):
http://files.filefront.com/Steam_Vau.../fileinfo.html
Here is finally some level 70+ content thats longer than 4 minutes. This vid also has a smaller resolution (640 x 512) so its smaller in size.

Codec used is XviD. If you can't view the movie, i recommend downloading the DefilerPak codec pack here, which is a complete small size codec pack without any spy or adware:
http://hellninjacommando.com/defilerpak/

Any questions can be directed in this thread or on the Official EU Druid Boards in this thread, but if you are on US servers or Korea or whatever strange place i recommend usign this thread.

I used FRAPS 2.6.4, and editing was done in Adobe Premiere primarily (primarily = 99% of everything), Final Encoding was done with VirtualDub. Screen resolution is up to 1152 x 864 (depending on movie) so its High Qual vid im bringing you, expect filesize to be more or less consistent with quality (tried getting a low filesize though). And no, Google video WON'T Happen unless some of you guys wants to upload it.

Regards, and enjoy.

Mosh · 01/01/07, 3:18 PM

Couple of hints so your post doesn't get nuked: You don't need to sign posts, neither in topic nor body, as your name is shown very clearly next to your post. I'd also suggest getting up a couple more same-level movies. A lot of people (me included) would like to see how well Feral Druids tank in BC, but it's not really a good example, or even worth it's own thread, if, outside of 2 pulls and a bossfight, all you have is you tanking lower level mobs.

◊ Lord BEEF · 01/01/07, 3:24 PM

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

Evert · 01/01/07, 3:29 PM

Arg.. I'm trying to not watch and BC movies so as not to spoil the experiance... But I so want to see these.

Copernicus · 01/01/07, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

Here's a thread from a Paladin MTing in Kharazahn, including videos. http://www.worldofraids.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2639

Originally Posted by Video Direct Link

http://files.filefront.com/Karaavi/;6415922;;/fileinfo.html

Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70130612&hl=en
(streaming video of lower quality, for those of you with trouble downloading)

Athinira · 01/01/07, 3:46 PM

Couple of hints so your post doesn't get nuked: You don't need to sign posts, neither in topic nor body, as your name is shown very clearly next to your post.

I see nothing wrong with signing posts, and i often do it when making longer posts where i present something. It doesn't destroy the post or anything, and if people start to nuke it for that sole reason then i could care less, because people who QQ over something that little aren't even worth any attention.

Signing posts also shows some of your other characters, in this case i signed with my 2 active chars.

I'd also suggest getting up a couple more same-level movies. A lot of people (me included) would like to see how well Feral Druids tank in BC, but it's not really a good example, or even worth it's own thread, if, outside of 2 pulls and a bossfight, all you have is you tanking lower level mobs.

Steam Vaults is currently uploading, and im editing Shadow Labyrinth as we speak. When done, they will be posted there as well in on first post. This is just a taste of how some instances look and how some of the pulls consist, and the 2 pulls in shattered halls actually say alot about the instance since its mostly conpromised that way. Being 2 levels over Underbog wasn't really affecting anything either, so that one is worth a watch as well if you want some serious info.

I understand your post, but more high level content is coming. This is the initial snacks :)

Kody · 01/01/07, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Copernicus

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

Here's a thread from a Paladin MTing in Kharazahn, including videos. http://www.worldofraids.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2639

Originally Posted by Video Direct Link

http://files.filefront.com/Karaavi/;6415922;;/fileinfo.html

Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70130612&hl=en
(streaming video of lower quality, for those of you with trouble downloading)

I don't know if I'd call that a paladin tanking video; more of a draenei elemental shaman video. :P But yeah, paladins are very strong tanks now. I've tanked a few level 70 instances on my paladin thus far and my gear isn't nearly as good as his(partly because the stupid jerk mobs aren't dropping my righteous stuff :(). It reminds me a lot of tanking as a warrior - I'd say the number of buttons I press while paladin tanking are very close to the number a warrior presses while tanking.

Abi · 01/01/07, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by Athinira

I see nothing wrong with signing posts, and i often do it when making longer posts where i present something. It doesn't destroy the post or anything, and if people start to nuke it for that sole reason then i could care less, because people who QQ over something that little aren't even worth any attention.

Signing posts also shows some of your other characters, in this case i signed with my 2 active chars.

Albeit reasonable, your personal view on this is irrelevant.

"3) If you "sign" your posts, you will be mocked. You have a profile in which you can and should put all relevant information such that it already appears next to every post. Personally I think the mockery itself and the herd mentality that gives rise to it are as stupid as the thing being mocked, but nevertheless, you don't want to type your name or your initials or some fancy symbol at the bottom of every post. People here will probably ignore what you posted and just make fun of you. It's like being a fat kid."

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6577

Back on topic; thanks for the effort.

Cryect · 01/01/07, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

Yeah, a pally video is what I like to see though would prefer to see a pally actually tank ingame just no pally seems to want to be prot spec though that I do 5 mans with.

Edit: Also if I end up tanking next time in Karazhan will record a few videos of Druid OTing

◊ Lord BEEF · 01/01/07, 4:11 PM

Just watched the shattered halls one, pretty cool. Seeing chain lightnings and flamestrikes in those pulls goes to show how strong swipe is for threat and why warriors are unhappy.

I expect that then TBC is released there will be videos of bear/paladin, 3 mage, and healer groups doing instances. The mages all specced for arcane sublety and just killing every pull with arcane explosions.

ildon · 01/01/07, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

I've been forcing my paladin friend to tank "for practice" (so I can DPS) when we do 5-mans, heh. He didn't even use Salv on me, and I was suprised how close to all-out I could go without pulling aggro (trinket + deathwish + execute was probably pushing it, though).

Edit: He's 40/11/0. I think paladin tanking is going to be like warrior tanking. Prot will help, but any spec can do it, especially in 5-mans, if the player is competent at least.

Athinira · 01/01/07, 6:47 PM

Originally Posted by Abi

Originally Posted by Athinira

I see nothing wrong with signing posts, and i often do it when making longer posts where i present something. It doesn't destroy the post or anything, and if people start to nuke it for that sole reason then i could care less, because people who QQ over something that little aren't even worth any attention.

Signing posts also shows some of your other characters, in this case i signed with my 2 active chars.

Albeit reasonable, your personal view on this is irrelevant.

"3) If you "sign" your posts, you will be mocked. You have a profile in which you can and should put all relevant information such that it already appears next to every post. Personally I think the mockery itself and the herd mentality that gives rise to it are as stupid as the thing being mocked, but nevertheless, you don't want to type your name or your initials or some fancy symbol at the bottom of every post. People here will probably ignore what you posted and just make fun of you. It's like being a fat kid."

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6577

Back on topic; thanks for the effort.

Edited it out as many people pointed out as well as getting the "Kaubel will pwn you <3" comment from a mate on IRC ;P

On a sidenote, Steam Vaults (level 70-72 instace) is uploading atm and will be done so tomorrow morning (playing from Denmark that means around 8-10 hours from this post or so). 14 minutes of level 70 tanking that also shows what happens when a boss attains than 4k DPS on a tank (hitting consistently for 2.5k+ every second or so) :)

Dawn · 01/01/07, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

I expect that then TBC is released there will be videos of bear/paladin, 3 mage, and healer groups doing instances. The mages all specced for arcane sublety and just killing every pull with arcane explosions.

I have been thinking along the same lines. A paladin would probably be optimal as he could hit every mob in a big pull with consecration and in addition to that put salvation on the mages/healer. Between salvation and arcane subtlety I think the mages should be able to go full out with arcane explosion without any risk of aggro. It should be possible to wipe out the trash in an instance at a crazy rate with a setup like that. I think it will be a lot of fun to do many of these instances as an AE capable class if you have a tank with solid aggro.

And yeah, I will freely admit I'm envious of the grace with which paladins/druids tank multiple mobs.

Whiteknight · 01/01/07, 7:28 PM

I imagine the trash would die really fast, but such a group would spend an absolutely huge amount of time sitting and drinking - arc explosion is really mana intensive. I bet if you ran the comparison, you might find that throughput is pretty close to a more traditional group just because of that.

Dawn · 01/01/07, 7:45 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteknight

I imagine the trash would die really fast, but such a group would spend an absolutely huge amount of time sitting and drinking - arc explosion is really mana intensive. I bet if you ran the comparison, you might find that throughput is pretty close to a more traditional group just because of that.

I agree that you can burn through your mana bar in a short time with arcane explosion. However, you don't need that many targets for it to be more mana efficient than single target spells. Also, consider that you easily can drink to full in less than 30 sec with the level 70 summoned water. I'm not that sure how good the group would be for boss encounters though.

Athinira · 01/01/07, 8:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dawn

I agree that you can burn through your mana bar in a short time with arcane explosion. However, you don't need that many targets for it to be more mana efficient than single target spells. Also, consider that you easily can drink to full in less than 30 sec with the level 70 summoned water. I'm not that sure how good the group would be for boss encounters though.

They would do quite fine. A serious amount of boss and trash encounters in TBC favors ranged DPS like hell. Its like Blizzard hates melee DPS.

There is plenty of examples of that, one of them actually being in my movie of tanking The Underbog. Trash mobs that fear the melee DPS (not the tank) so you have to tank them a bit back from the rest of the groups.

Also boss encounters favor this. Murmur, High Botanist Freywinn, Mechano-Lord Capacitus, Warp Splinter, Hydromacer Thespia all favors ranged DPS (some to a lesser degree than others and some where its close to equal, but generally ranged DPS seems to be a big advantage).

Juno · 01/01/07, 11:20 PM

I downloaded 2 of the movies, Slave Pens and Shattered Halls and wow. I'm amazed. That looked easy, so very easy. Incredible aggro on both single and multiple targets, intercept mobs on partymembers easily without putting the party at risk. Everything just with the use of 3 buttons. With a pure infinite rage pool and pretty decent heals from LoTP. And it didn't seem like the Paladin broke a sweat trying to heal in Slave Pens (level difference accounted for). It'd be very interesting to see a paladin tanking video now. Gonna download the video Copernicus linked to.

Oh, and a tip for future vids, please lower the resolution a bit, no need to have 720p :)

Fukasa · 01/02/07, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

Just watched the shattered halls one, pretty cool. Seeing chain lightnings and flamestrikes in those pulls goes to show how strong swipe is for threat and why warriors are unhappy.

Yea not to take anything away from the OP, but it seems like druid tanking is the equivalent of spamming cleave. And yes, that does make me unhappy.

Without mass CC, warriors are severely limited by the global cool down as far as getting significant threat on 3-5 mobs, without using cleave thats 7.5 seconds if rage allows it.

Edit: And by significant I mean enough to hold the mob through a decent sized heal or two.

Athinira · 01/02/07, 6:47 AM

Steam Vaults up. This one is in smaller resolution (and therefore size) than the rest, but its still good quality.

Yea not to take anything away from the OP, but it seems like druid tanking is the equivalent of spamming cleave.

You aren't taking anything away, druid tanking IS easy, there is no way around it. Besides some gimmicks you find different places (aka. how to tackle different bosses as a tank etc.) it is really just usign 3-4 buttons most of the time.

Roana · 01/02/07, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by Fukasa

Without mass CC, warriors are severely limited by the global cool down as far as getting significant threat on 3-5 mobs, without using cleave thats 7.5 seconds if rage allows it.

Edit: And by significant I mean enough to hold the mob through a decent sized heal or two.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but you can make multi-mob tanking considerably easier by grabbing all the talents for Thunder Clap (Improved Thunder Clap, Tactical Mastery, Focused Rage).

It's a far cry from a fully talented Swipe (primarily because it is not spammable, otherwise it would actually be surprisingly close), but at level 60, if it hits four targets, it is the second-best threat/rage ability a warrior has, right after Revenge, and is the most threat a warrior can put out in a single global cooldown (at level 70, Shield Slam, fully talented, will break even for threat/rage at around 650 block value and for threat in a global cooldown at around 350 block value).

You won't hold aggro over consistent AEs, but you can fend off the occasional multi-shot, and it will make holding aggro over a healer considerably easier. Most importantly, no, you will not need 7.5 seconds to get significant initial threat on 3-5 mobs. You'll take 1.5-3 seconds, same as a druid.

Fukasa · 01/02/07, 8:54 AM

Originally Posted by Roana

Originally Posted by Fukasa

Without mass CC, warriors are severely limited by the global cool down as far as getting significant threat on 3-5 mobs, without using cleave thats 7.5 seconds if rage allows it.

Edit: And by significant I mean enough to hold the mob through a decent sized heal or two.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but you can make multi-mob tanking considerably easier by grabbing all the talents for Thunder Clap (Improved Thunder Clap, Tactical Mastery, Focused Rage).

It's a far cry from a fully talented Swipe (primarily because it is not spammable, otherwise it would actually be surprisingly close), but at level 60, if it hits four targets, it is the second-best threat/rage ability a warrior has, right after Revenge, and is the most threat a warrior can put out in a single global cooldown (at level 70, Shield Slam, fully talented, will break even for threat/rage at around 650 block value and for threat in a global cooldown at around 350 block value).

You won't hold aggro over consistent AEs, but you can fend off the occasional multi-shot, and it will make holding aggro over a healer considerably easier. Most importantly, no, you will not need 7.5 seconds to get significant initial threat on 3-5 mobs. You'll take 1.5-3 seconds, same as a druid.

Good point, I haven't been in beta at all, so all I have to go off of is people's opinions and small video clips. In live and before, I very rarely opened anything with thunderclap, but I can definitely see where it may be useful as an opener. However spamming it requires you to stance dance every 4 seconds, and although a small point, be in battle stance for 2 seconds every 8 or whatever it works out to be.

talzar · 01/02/07, 9:16 AM

Yeah there's no way I would spam T-clap, and I don't think that's what the poster was intending. He just meant to use it as something to keep aggro off a healer for the first couple seconds of the fight, though I'm not really sure that's a big deal really. Your healer shouldn't have to heal for the first 8 seconds of the fight or so and with 200 aggro on 4 targets (which is what T-clap fully taleneted would get you with the threat reduction in Battle Stance) I highly doubt that's going to hold aggro off of any Hunter that multishots or any mage that throws down an early AE.

Athinira · 01/02/07, 9:17 AM

I have heard Thunder Clap generates agro equal to damage done x 2 (not considering any stance modifiers since its only useable on Battle Stance, so its damage x 2 regardless)

Roana · 01/02/07, 9:24 AM

Originally Posted by Fukasa

Good point, I haven't been in beta at all, so all I have to go off of is people's opinions and small video clips. In live and before, I very rarely opened anything with thunderclap, but I can definitely see where it may be useful as an opener. However spamming it requires you to stance dance every 4 seconds, and although a small point, be in battle stance for 2 seconds every 8 or whatever it works out to be.

I haven't been in beta, either -- I just know that many warriors do not know about the pretty good threat generation of Thunder Clap (the threat it generates is twice the damage it does, not modified by stance), which can be optimized quite a bit through talents (Improved Thunder Clap doubles its threat for only three talent points, add Focused Rage, and it's cheaper than untalented Sunder Armor).

I would agree, though, that the warrior tanking model is currently a hodgepodge of abilities accumulated since the original beta, and barely hanging together at the moment (especially when compared to the more coherent tanking models of druids and paladins). Having to switch stances constantly to access our only significant AE aggro ability is just another example.

Anyway, this shouldn't distract from Athinira's great tanking videos, and I don't want to derail the thread into another class comparison.

Edit: I can't spell.

Roana · 01/02/07, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by talzar

Yeah there's no way I would spam T-clap, and I don't think that's what the poster was intending. He just meant to use it as something to keep aggro off a healer for the first couple seconds of the fight, though I'm not really sure that's a big deal really. Your healer shouldn't have to heal for the first 8 seconds of the fight or so and with 200 aggro on 4 targets (which is what T-clap fully taleneted would get you with the threat reduction in Battle Stance) I highly doubt that's going to hold aggro off of any Hunter that multishots or any mage that throws down an early AE.

Just to clarify: Thunder Clap's threat is twice the damage it does, and it most definitely is not affected by the threat reduction of Battle Stance (the threat of Whirlwind and Execute is likewise not reduced by the Battle/Berserker Stance modifier).

That means at level 60, you have 412 threat per mob before mitigation, or typically around 250-300 threat after mitigation. Furthermore, ranged classes need to exceed your threat by 30% to draw aggro, so a single Thunder Clap will hold aggro over 325-390 ranged damage, assuming no further threat modifiers. On four mobs, it will also hold aggro over 3250-3900 points of healing, assuming the healer has picked up a 20% threat reduction talent (2600-3120 otherwise).