TBC Tanking Movies - Druid Tanking by Athinira - Page 2

Myonax · 01/02/07, 2:54 PM

In TBC I currently have a 70 lock and 70 druid. On my lock I generally preferred a druid tank, even more so if the group lacked CC. Swipe is incredibly over-powered. I have tanked every single 5 man instance on my druid. I think in all that time I didn’t have aggro pulled from me once (not including bosses that have complete aggro wipes or fear/incapacitating effects). I had people DPSing things I was off tanking and not pull aggro. For those of you that don’t know, the target the Druid is directly targeting has considerably higher threat threshold due to white damage since swipe doesn’t seem to reset the swing. In perfect groups I was doing 500 damage to three targets with swipe. So far the best group I have found for druid tanking is:

Enhancement Shaman (SoE, Wind furry, Unleashed Rage)
DPS warrior (preferable arms) (BS + 4% extra damage from bleeds).
Paladin (BoK or BoM, armor aura + judgments)
Hunter (TSA)

In that group I had 2400 AP in bear with 18000 armor. 400 – 500 swipes criting for 800-1000k on three targets is just overpowered. Swipe would still be really good if it cost 25 rage instead of 15 it is now.

Cryect · 01/02/07, 3:24 PM

I'm really confused where people get these 400-500 swipes noncritting?

You say you had 2.4k AP that means you have a swipe of 332 on a target with ZERO armor. Thats one of the biggest things I see often is people seem to exagerate swipe damage. Its good but not as good as people seem to list random numbers that aren't feasible unless you have a berserker rage buff or something (if someone wants to point out the berserker rage buff hut in PvE instances that would be cool though).

You can calculate swipe damage with the formula Damage_Swipe=(84+0.07*AP)*1.1*1.2 for a talented druid with Naturalist and Savage Fury. So that means on a target with 0 armor you need ~4.2k AP to reach 500 swipes noncrit on a target with zero armor then take into account the ~30% mitigation you are likely looking at it based off the mitigation thread and we are talking you need approximately ~6.5k Attack Power to hit a mob with swipe for 500 damage.

Also why would you have the shaman placing a WF totem down for a druid tank considering it can't proc, grace of air would be better in that case since only the warrior is really benefitting from WF whereas the entire group gets a nice benefit from Grace of Air.

Zandig · 01/02/07, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

I'm really confused where people get these 400-500 swipes noncritting?

You say you had 2.4k AP that means you have a swipe of 332 on a target with ZERO armor.

The only thing I can think of is the 10% damage buff from the enhance shammy, which wouldn't account for 100 damage, but would bump it up to a bit closer to 400.

Cryect · 01/02/07, 4:07 PM

BTW Roanne's number's for Thunderclap would suggest that Improved Thunderclap is about half as bad as swipe for 3 targets if your swipes were hitting for 300 (a swipe hitting for 300 generates about ~800 aggro with all the threat modifiers). If I go full tank gear which I often do because I still generally have no aggro issues and prefer personally to reduce the healing load necessary for the healer (in full tanking gear I'm still pulling ~350 DPS in Dark Portal which I've done too many times recently to get people keys and so I could get to revered for the helm enchant). In my full tanking gear the swipes I'm normally seeing on targets are about 200 which generates about ~525 threat which is only slightly better than those Thunderclap numbers then when you consider Thunderclap is on 4 targets 3*525~=4*400 the total threat generate is about equal.

Now a lot of warriors don't see Thunderclap as an aggro move due to its not in the defensive stance but its their equivalent to swipe and the numbers work out pretty similar to swipe numbers. What really should be done is Thunderclap should be allowed to be used in Defensive stance as well while keeping the mechanics the exact same (so not effected by threat modifiers).

Myonax · 01/02/07, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

I'm really confused where people get these 400-500 swipes noncritting?

You say you had 2.4k AP that means you have a swipe of 332 on a target with ZERO armor. Thats one of the biggest things I see often is people seem to exagerate swipe damage. Its good but not as good as people seem to list random numbers that aren't feasible unless you have a berserker rage buff or something (if someone wants to point out the berserker rage buff hut in PvE instances that would be cool though).

You can calculate swipe damage with the formula Damage_Swipe=(84+0.07*AP)*1.1*1.2 for a talented druid with Naturalist and Savage Fury. So that means on a target with 0 armor you need ~4.2k AP to reach 500 swipes noncrit on a target with zero armor then take into account the ~30% mitigation you are likely looking at it based off the mitigation thread and we are talking you need approximately ~6.5k Attack Power to hit a mob with swipe for 500 damage.

Also why would you have the shaman placing a WF totem down for a druid tank considering it can't proc, grace of air would be better in that case since only the warrior is really benefitting from WF whereas the entire group gets a nice benefit from Grace of Air.

Idol of Brutality +50 damage to swipe.
Unleashed Rage + Arms 4% damage when a warrior bleed is on. The DPS warrior I was with kept Deep wounds or Rend up on everything. He was doing sweeping strikes and cleaves whenever possible.

Savos · 01/02/07, 4:30 PM

These movies kinda make me feel sad as I realize how much more difficult it is to do anything similar as a warrior and probably not even as well. Sure I could switch battle, thunderclap every 10 seconds or so in addition to tab-sunder/revenge, but I'd be doing (seemingly) 4 times the effort for at best similar results.

Plus the ability to do all that threat generation with significantly less rage income which warriors had trouble with even pre-normaliztion.

Dawn · 01/02/07, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

BTW Roanne's number's for Thunderclap would suggest that Improved Thunderclap is about half as bad as swipe for 3 targets if your swipes were hitting for 300 (a swipe hitting for 300 generates about ~800 aggro with all the threat modifiers). If I go full tank gear which I often do because I still generally have no aggro issues and prefer personally to reduce the healing load necessary for the healer (in full tanking gear I'm still pulling ~350 DPS in Dark Portal which I've done too many times recently to get people keys and so I could get to revered for the helm enchant). In my full tanking gear the swipes I'm normally seeing on targets are about 200 which generates about ~525 threat which is only slightly better than those Thunderclap numbers then when you consider Thunderclap is on 4 targets 3*525~=4*400 the total threat generate is about equal.

Yes, Thunderclap probably generates about as much threat as one swipe. The major difference is that Thunderclap has a 4 sec cooldown. Also, swipe scales with AP so we can expect it to become better in the future.

Now a lot of warriors don't see Thunderclap as an aggro move due to its not in the defensive stance but its their equivalent to swipe and the numbers work out pretty similar to swipe numbers. What really should be done is Thunderclap should be allowed to be used in Defensive stance as well while keeping the mechanics the exact same (so not effected by threat modifiers).

Just having it usable in defensive stance would be a big step forward. However, given the cooldown I don't think it would be unreasonable to apply the modifiers as well.

Athinira · 01/03/07, 12:06 PM

I'm really confused where people get these 400-500 swipes noncritting?

If anyone told you they get 400+ swipes non-crit they are lying. My best swipe crit is 867 in Steam Vaults, tanking in DPS Gear Battle Shout, Shammy 10% AP buff, 200 AP trinket, Improved Expose Armor/Faerie Fire, Improved Kidney shot (we had an assasination rogue who loved Expose and happened to use Imp. Kidney shot there).

Swipe is 84 damage + 50 from Idol + 7% of AP. Take 2.4k AP, thats 168 damage added, 84+50+168 = 302 damage. Then 20% from Savage Fury and 10% from Natural Weapons takes this to 399. Add a 2.3 modifier for a crit with Predatory Instinct and you got 916 pre-armor. Add 9% from Improved Kidney Shot and your at 999, probably what i had at that 867 Swipe crit since i was a bit above 2.4k AP at that point.

500 swipe on crit is still impressive agro though.

Roana · 01/03/07, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dawn

Just having it usable in defensive stance would be a big step forward. However, given the cooldown I don't think it would be unreasonable to apply the modifiers as well.

True.

However, right now my main challenge when tanking is not being able to generate the threat, it's the sheer cognitive load involved in warrior 5-man tanking just for managing abilities (paladins aren't that much better off, though). Abilities like Thunder Clap not being available in defensive stance doesn't exactly help that issue.

Pyros · 01/03/07, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Roana

However, right now my main challenge when tanking is not being able to generate the threat, it's the sheer cognitive load involved in warrior 5-man tanking just for managing abilities (paladins aren't that much better off, though). Abilities like Thunder Clap not being available in defensive stance doesn't exactly help that issue.

I always felt that was the strong point of playing a warrior, compared to say, dps classes. Sure it's tiring as hell to tank 5mans when everyone is doing random stuff(like charging pyroblasts on off targets and stuff, happens often in pugs ^^), but it's also very fulfilling and you don't get bored at all during the pulls. Having lots of stuff to account for is usually what I'm looking for in the game so I don't get bored, which is why I went away from dps classes(hunter and lock) to a warrior and then to a healer. Healers are pretty fun because you don't press too many keys, but you have to act before stuff happens, instead of reacting like you usually do on a warrior. Grasping the situation fast and being able where and how much damage will be taken in the next few seconds and starting your heals accordingly is quite pleasing. The whole "surviving" part is fun in PvP too, but anyway that's a derail.

I remember when I was tanking with feral bears some months ago(so pre BC, but well geared feral tanks), they looked so extremly boring. No stance dancing, easy aggro dumps, not that many cooldowns. I guess the fun part comes from the fact that's only one form of the class and you get to dps or throw a few buffs/heals(at least in PvP) inbetween tanking, but warriors, from my warrior perspective, looked way more fun. More complicated, more tiresome, but more fun. I never found it terribly hard to tank 3-5 of the crappy silithid trash in AQ40 either, not even using thunderclap(didn't know it generated twice the threat, is that new?), you just have to switch targets a lot, use cleaves and revenge on the targets who aren't cleaved. It's probably harder than druids AE tanking, but isn't that more fun? Or am I just a masochist? ^^

Pyros · 01/03/07, 1:35 PM

Double post :(

Athinira · 01/03/07, 2:44 PM

I remember when I was tanking with feral bears some months ago(so pre BC, but well geared feral tanks), they looked so extremly boring. No stance dancing, easy aggro dumps, not that many cooldowns. I guess the fun part comes from the fact that's only one form of the class and you get to dps or throw a few buffs/heals(at least in PvP) inbetween tanking, but warriors, from my warrior perspective, looked way more fun. More complicated, more tiresome, but more fun. I never found it terribly hard to tank 3-5 of the crappy silithid trash in AQ40 either, not even using thunderclap(didn't know it generated twice the threat, is that new?), you just have to switch targets a lot, use cleaves and revenge on the targets who aren't cleaved. It's probably harder than druids AE tanking, but isn't that more fun? Or am I just a masochist? ^^

The thing about feral druid tanking is that its being like a DPS warrior. You generate threat by doing damage, and compared to the DPS role your focus is on generating as much threat as possible, while still focusing on getting some large numbers and some damage from your rage, besides that its pretty much the same.

I think many DPS warriors would enjoy playing a feral druid while tanking. Its just like their warrior except you have a taunt button in "berserker stance" and are actually trying to pull agro and keep it while you are sitting at almost 1.5k Attack Power.

Dawn · 01/03/07, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

I remember when I was tanking with feral bears some months ago(so pre BC, but well geared feral tanks), they looked so extremly boring. No stance dancing, easy aggro dumps, not that many cooldowns. I guess the fun part comes from the fact that's only one form of the class and you get to dps or throw a few buffs/heals(at least in PvP) inbetween tanking, but warriors, from my warrior perspective, looked way more fun. More complicated, more tiresome, but more fun. I never found it terribly hard to tank 3-5 of the crappy silithid trash in AQ40 either, not even using thunderclap(didn't know it generated twice the threat, is that new?), you just have to switch targets a lot, use cleaves and revenge on the targets who aren't cleaved. It's probably harder than druids AE tanking, but isn't that more fun? Or am I just a masochist? ^^

I don't necessarily want "one button" tanking either. On the other hand, if I was after mad button mashing I would probably play some console game instead. If they allowed TC in defensive you would still do other things while waiting for the cooldown. The only real difference would be that you would not have to stance dance non-stop.

Roana · 01/03/07, 6:13 PM

About the complexity of tanking as a warrior.

Originally Posted by Pyros

I always felt that was the strong point of playing a warrior, compared to say, dps classes. Sure it's tiring as hell to tank 5mans when everyone is doing random stuff(like charging pyroblasts on off targets and stuff, happens often in pugs ^^), but it's also very fulfilling and you don't get bored at all during the pulls.

I don't disagree, but that's not quite what I mean.

Consider the following example: if you could solve a mathematical puzzle using either Arabic or Roman numerals, which one would you pick? Obviously, you'd shoot for Arabic numerals, because multiplication or division using Roman numerals is ridiculously difficulty, and does not increase your appreciation of the difficulty of a good puzzle.

When it comes to warrior tanking, a significant amount of your attention is focused not on aggro management, but managing your aggro management, so to speak. The vocabulary of your available tanking actions is only very indirectly tied to the goals you want to achieve, and a lot of embellishment and translation is needed to arrive at the desired result for even straightforward tanking situations. You have to remember what stance you are in (and switch accordingly), you have to manage your cooldowns, you have to deal with frequent retargeting (either through the imperfect Tab-targeting interface or click-targeting nameplates), you have abilities that are only available under certain conditions (specifically, Revenge).

That is all nice to keep you entertained when tanking would otherwise be trivial and boring, because good entertainment requires a certain amount of attention. But now, consider a fight that itself significantly increases your cognitive load. When you have to worry about positioning, mobs that deaggro, mobs that try to keep you at a distance, grabbing aggro of spawning adds, reacting to stage transitions, and other things that increase your cognitive load, then the awkward vocabulary of a warrior's tanking actions can quickly become a hassle rather than entertainmentm because it pushes your cognitive load beyond your comfort level.

Stances are a particularly prominent issue here. If you are familiar with HCI, you will recognize them as modes; modes are often a problem because they quite commonly lead to mode errors (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_error for some very basic background). I am largely (though not entirely) avoiding stance errors through a set of macros, but you can consider me an expert user of Blizzard's interface -- a regular warrior will generally have to deal with the interface as is.

Now, I am not saying that I find this unmanageably hard. Since I've been unable to raid (a combination of being overseas in an inconvenient timezone, being stuck with dial-up, and having a baby), much of my focus playing for the past year and a half has been doing 5-mans, especially when tanking them as a warrior. I've had enough time to practice my moves that I can largely (but not entirely) factor out the cognitive load associated with managing my abilities, though the recent changes have forced me to relearn a few things, and I'm still in the process of adapting, though generally a 6-mob pull will not faze me in the slightest. A new player, however, will not have my experience and practice. The way how warrior tanking works is awkward and unintuitive, and the game does not teach it (you basically learn from other people, who may or may not be good teachers or even know how abilities actually work in a tanking context).

Miaxi · 01/03/07, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

Yeah, a pally video is what I like to see though would prefer to see a pally actually tank ingame just no pally seems to want to be prot spec though that I do 5 mans with.

Edit: Also if I end up tanking next time in Karazhan will record a few videos of Druid OTing

Vespette made a video of a Karazhan run with a paladin main tank. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70130612&hl=en

As for druid tanks, we had a druid tanking on four horsemen and Kel'Thuzad in patch 1.9, so I don't understand why there are still doubts. In patch 2.01 a good tanking druid already generates so much threat so quickly, that a dual-wielding shaman can go all out and survive it.

Pyros · 01/03/07, 9:58 PM

Yes I guess I agree with what was posted in answer to my post, maybe tanking as a warrior, at least on multiple targets is TOO annoying. Sure kept me entertained, but I had to make a very specific UI set, have some thought-out key combinations to be able to reach everything I needed while tanking on one hand so I could still mouse look(at first my stance changes were made with my mouse hand, but when I figured I couldn't reposition and stance dance at the same time, I had to change it, think nef rogue's calls+fears). I was pretty happy when I could get it to work, but yea I guess that's highly against blizzard standards, as it's not very intuitive or easy at all.

I like the stance concept, but maybe they should revise some of the abilities, or offer wider options(use TC in def stance for twice the rage cost, might be worth it when you're high on rage or just don't want to afford losing the 10% reduction). Maybe take revenge out of the GCD(it's on cooldown AND a proc, so it wouldn't be that bad, maybe nerf the threat part a bit if it's not on GCD anymore). Few small stuff could be done to improve warrior tanking.

In a way tho, I wish all warriors could have it a bit easier, it's a pain to pug 5mans with random warriors tanking, bad ferals usually do a much better job than bad warriors, which are plain terrible. Hunter's pets tank better than bad warriors.

Anyway, I'd rather stop the derail here, and see some more tanking videos. Wish I could see some paladin tanking videos too(from the paladin pov). Hear a lot about paladin tanking, but have yet to see a video of a paladin using a prot build

Athinira · 01/04/07, 5:52 AM

I would be very interested in seeing a warrior tanking video. Of course, I know sort of what to expect but it would be nice to have for comparison.

Sorry but i don't have a warrior on test.

If i had frapsed my healing sessions though you would see a healer die over and over again from healing agro 5 times on the same trash pull because of lack of CC (Botanica in Tempest Keep, that instance is the most annoying thing ever created by Blizzard).

Athinira · 01/04/07, 8:08 AM

Originally Posted by Miaxi

Originally Posted by Cryect

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

This isn't a bad thread, gives people examples of what to expect, though more high level stuff would be good.

Personally I'd like to see a paladin tank video to better understand how it works and what it looks like

Yeah, a pally video is what I like to see though would prefer to see a pally actually tank ingame just no pally seems to want to be prot spec though that I do 5 mans with.

Edit: Also if I end up tanking next time in Karazhan will record a few videos of Druid OTing

Vespette made a video of a Karazhan run with a paladin main tank. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70130612&hl=en

As for druid tanks, we had a druid tanking on four horsemen and Kel'Thuzad in patch 1.9, so I don't understand why there are still doubts. In patch 2.01 a good tanking druid already generates so much threat so quickly, that a dual-wielding shaman can go all out and survive it.

Pff, your guild should invest in another druid than that fat stupid cow, he spends WAAAI too much time on IRC. That he is a liar doesn't make it any better :(
<Azgaz> athinira smells of cheese

Nerf Azgay!

Cryect · 01/04/07, 9:32 AM

Few videos of offtanking or AOE pulls in Karazhan. Would have had some further things else than didn't really have any space though besides Curator and Terestian nothing that interesting to see through the Prince.

http://acm.jhu.edu/~cryect/Karazhan/Morose.avi
http://acm.jhu.edu/~cryect/Karazhan/...MultiPulls.avi

Heh, was half sleep during these so kinda embarassed wasn't using maul on the multipulls though still was learning Karazhan (nice instance though a little on the easy side with a guild group vs PUG's I was used to before but then again that makes sense if its not aimed for hardcore raiders).

In the second video, you can see my defensive stats since a priest was curious my armor with Inspiration (the gear is mainly quested with a small amount of instance and rep items).

Edit: Also should have built secondary aggro on Moroes sooner just felt I better watch the shadow priest in case she decided to do something more useful than slowly be kited by a frost mage as she was getting kicked by rogues.

Liar · 01/04/07, 10:40 AM

Is it true that Druids are tanking in DPS most of the time as I assumed they do?

Btw, I only watched the Steamvault movie because it was a small download (and I don't want to spoil myself further so close to TBC) and you died when you got adds. Do you think you would have managed if you wear in mitigation gear (and picked up the loose add that was munching on the Paladin >_>)?

Miaxi · 01/04/07, 11:26 AM

Pff, your guild should invest in another druid than that fat stupid cow, he spends WAAAI too much time on IRC. That he is a liar doesn't make it any better :(
<Azgaz> athinira smells of cheese

Nerf Azgay!

Azgaz for the win. :D

Deathwing · 01/04/07, 12:49 PM

I agree with the general statement of "needless complication != fun". Anyone remember stance-restricted abilities back in original beta? Sunder, slam, cleave, and I think even heroic strike were restricted to certain stances. The idea of stances is very good, but was poorly implemented, and at this point a shell of its former self. What if druids could only taunt in travel form(mocking blow and battle stance)? On top of that, tooltips are ambiguous or don't even reveal an ability's full description. I've been playing a warrior since release and I didn't know it did double threat and ignored battle stance modifiers. For the longest time, nothing about sunder armor implied high agro. The fact that warriors were using BS buffing to AE tank up until last patch should show just how broken the system is.

Roana, why do you think Paladins aren't that much better, with the amount of buttons they need to tank? I honestly don't know, what would an average paladin do to tank?

Athinira · 01/04/07, 3:44 PM

Btw, I only watched the Steamvault movie because it was a small download (and I don't want to spoil myself further so close to TBC) and you died when you got adds. Do you think you would have managed if you wear in mitigation gear (and picked up the loose add that was munching on the Paladin >_>)?

That wasn't Steam Vaults, that was shattered halls, and i actually doubt it. First of all i was stressed at that moment which was why i didn't see the paladin had one on him.

/wave, can we expect any tanking movies from you soon? Still got MM vs. Twin Emps :P

The problem is though that the paladin was low on mana and these mobs do Mortal Strike, so i doubt we had the outlasting power in regards to mana to survive that pull.

I should be noted that wrong sheeping tactics can cause you to pull the same groups. Been wiping 5 times on the same trash mobs there with me as tanks because the mages managed to pull the sidegroups 5 times in a row when Polymorphing, and we only found out that the reason was that you can't sheep the 2 closest mobs to the Mortal Strike groups since it will pull them. I can't tank 12+ mobs and survive when they Mortal Strike sadly :)

Is it true that Druids are tanking in DPS most of the time as I assumed they do?

Tank most of the time. I doubt there is the room for Cat DPS in 25 man raids though, but im sure you could fit a Moonkin in with the mages etc.

Roana · 01/04/07, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Roana, why do you think Paladins aren't that much better, with the amount of buttons they need to tank? I honestly don't know, what would an average paladin do to tank?

It's not just buttons, it's the more general concept of cognitive load. Paladin tanking is dominated by long cooldown abilities (well, eight seconds can be an eternity when tanking), so cooldown management and awareness is a big part of paladin tanking:

(1) Consecration is on an eight second cooldown. Place it in the wrong spot, and you have a problem. Have mobs that don't conveniently stay close together, and you have a problem. Have a mob that you need CCed in the consecrated area, and you have a problem. Especially when they are casters that are more or less unaffected by Holy Shield.
(2) Judgement is on a 10 second cooldown, eight seconds if you grab a very inconveniently located talent. If your judgement is resisted, you have no melee-range burst aggro for the time being (unless you spec Holy Shock, in which case you give up a lot of very good protection talents, or the mobs happen to be undead).
(3) You have only one taunt, and it's on a 15 second cooldown (a small eternity, in other words). If it gets resisted, too bad; let's hope the mob is stunnable. Druids at least have Challenging Roar as a backup, warriors have Mocking Blow and Challenging Shout. Blessing of Protection is only a partial answer -- casters and elemental mobs will completely ignore it.

There are more examples, but I think you get the idea. What that means is that you have to think more strategically than a warrior or druid. If you screw up, you will have a hard time getting a situation under control, so you have to think ahead and plan your moves out, be aware of where your cooldowns are, and so forth. While "hit consecration and go in a Seal/Judgement cycle" works reasonably well in run of the mill pulls (i.e., tank-and-spank, just with multiple mobs), there are tons of pulls in current content where you have to think more: The ghosts in DM West (silence, casters that ignore your Holy Shield and don't stay grouped together closely enough for consecration -- it'd be hell if they weren't undead), any pull with an axe thrower in LBRS (melee them, and they knock you down and run out of your consecration), the baroness in Stratholme (silence, silence, silence), pulls with Thuzadin Necromancers in Stratholme (mana/life drain, and their bone armor means that your consecration/holy shield will generate zero aggro while it's up), pulls with Blackhand Assassins in UBRS (assassin's sheep breaks early, runs into your consecration, can't be resheeped, gouges you, you lose aggro on everything), and so forth.

As an aside, there are techniques to combat cognitive load: For example (speaking about warrior tanking here), in a large pull with six mobs or so, I plan out my first half dozen moves or so and commit them to memory before I pull; then I just execute them. Where I have to move, which mobs need to be hit with a sunder, how I separate the non-CCed mobs from the CCed ones so I can use Thunder Clap and Cleave, what I do on what cooldown, and so forth.

Pantone · 01/04/07, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Roana

(3) You have only one taunt, and it's on a 15 second cooldown (a small eternity, in other words). If it gets resisted, too bad; let's hope the mob is stunnable. Druids at least have Challenging Roar as a backup, warriors have Mocking Blow and Challenging Shout. Blessing of Protection is only a partial answer -- casters and elemental mobs will completely ignore it.

Interestingly, paladins may be able to stack spellhit, unlike warriors or druids. That may have some interesting ramifications with taunt and their threat moves--with holy damage and enough spell hit, a paladin may be the "safe" choice when you can't have a resist, parry, dodge, or whatnot.