I have seen a number of posts that seem to discuss the rating itself but not so much the cost in terms of item budgets

I took some items with simple stats and the RES rating and got the following using Subcreations Item Level Calculator:

Generals Dragonhide Belt
21 STR
21 AGI
30 STAM
12 INT
21 RES
33 Healing
Requires Level 70
Item Level: 110

This is an epic PVP reward

Assuming that the values for all stats but STAM are the same, and STAM is calculated at 50% of previous budget costs, and if we calculate its item level without taking the RES, it comes to am item level of about 87. This leaves 23 levels left in the budget. If we do a 1:1 translation of RES to say...SPI (so saying 21 SPI instead of 21 RES) we get an item level of 103. If we increase it to 28 (from 21) we get the desired item level of 110. In this situation it would seem the RES stat is worth 77% of a SPI stat (and likewise a STR/INT/AGI stat as they are all the same, and 154% the cost of STAM as its budget cost has been reduced).

Another item:

General's Wyrmhide Boots
30 STAM
21 INT
21 RES
29 Damage/Healing
6 Mp/5
Requires level 70
Item Level 110

This an epic PVP reward

If we once again ignore the RES stat for a moment the item is a level 83 epic. If we place the RES stat level into AGI we get a item level of 100. If we boos that number from 21 to 28 we again get the desired item level of 110. Again a value of 77%

I have tested some of the blue rewards as well and they seem to give higher values (RES costing closer to 100% of base stats) than the epic rewards. Now Blizz has told us that 25 RES is equal to a 1% reduction in crit chance, but if the RES stat is between 150 and 200% the budgetary cost of STAM (with its newly weighted value) is it worth it? Is 1% reduction in crit chance worth what could be between 375 and 500 HP?

Don't forget that the resilience rating that gives you -1% chance to be crit, also reduces the damage on crits by 2%

The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

So far that I've seen the resilience stat is more costly in terms of worth than other stats. Take the sword from the Durn the Hungerer kill quest - it's superior to the sword from Temporus in Dark Portal. Level 68 quest, doable at 66, or a level 70 instance drop.

If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?

Possibly. Remember that 500 Stam sounds much bigger to us right now than it will in a few months.

Back in the the BWL days, how quickly would you have written off the effects of +25 Defense? This is the same thing.

Knowledge of the itemization formulas, uncovered by Hyzenthlei, is practically expected around here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Item_Values

I understand that resilience would be a less desired stat in PvE than defense for most classes, but for what it's worth, you need to also take another situation into account -- the point where the CRIT damage reduction becomes meaningless because you are immune to crits already.

So assuming that all mobs still have a 5% base chance to crit, it would require 125 RES stat to mitigate all crits (like defense does for warriors). I know that STAM is scaling very high in xpac gear, but still, at 70, in a PVE situation, is the 125 RES required to mitigate all crits worth the 2500 HP it equates to?

thank you, i'll read it, although i'm pretty sure there was something about exponential stuff.. the example was the old ring of the godslayer and the old band of reanimation, and how they could only add 7 agi while taking away all that sta ( 17 i believe ).

anyway.. nevermind my post

Resilence isn't worth it in PvE its almost as expensive as Defense is per point (well 39.4 resilence rating to 60 defense rating for reducing 1% crit) but you don't get the extra avoidance granted by Defense (1% dodge/parry/block/miss) and the other component of Resilence gets more and more worthless the closer you become to crit immune. And since PvE mob spells can't crit you can't consider that as a benefit either.

For PvP it seems a potentially useful ability but maybe too expensive but will definately help out for reducing spell damage.

I believe stamina is 67% of it's previous cost, which means you get 50% more stamina for the same itemization price. The stat distributions on BC greens tend to support this theory (e.g., "of the Eagle" tends to be +1.0x Intellect and +1.5x Stamina).

The way the itemization base cost is calculated works by adding each stat variable to the power of 3/2 and then taking the total of each and taking it to the 2/3 power. By doing this, you must treat Resilience as its own seperate stat to reflect proper values for its icost. If you were to stack it with an already existing stat point, you would artificially inflate the icost of Resilience.

The major problem I have with resilience is that while it's primarily a PvP stat, I've seen it more on PvE items so far. Basically what I'm getting at is this: they need to itemize their game better because right now it's junking up PvE stuff when it should be on PvP almost exclusively. With the focus they've given PvP in the expansion, there's zero reason that it should even be on any items outside of stuff obtained through PvP - PvP should be mutually exclusive to PvE in terms of gear progression.

That would push a lot of people away form PvE then; by that logic Necro-knights Garb in Naxx shouldn't be there even though it is arguably the best pvp robe a clothie can get. Or for that matter elemental shaman items couldn't drop since shamans do not pew pew in raids. There should always be good pvp loot in raids. However, I agree with you on the statement that resilience should not be on tanking gear, since it simply does not do enough for tanking.

You mean 1 RES = 1 STR = 1.5 stam, right?

All of this is in a zero-heal environment, which should be taken into account. If players can successfully tank an assist train - bursting down is truly not possible - then resilience provides mitigation that stamina does not. 192.5 stamina will only ever mitigate 1925 damage. 125 resilience can potentially mitigate more, however in the above fight it would require you to take (9000 dmg done / 652 dmg mitigated) x (1200 dmg mitigated by sta) = 16564 damage needed to match stamina's mitigation. Given that you have 8.5k hp, if you were healed for 8064 during the fight, resilience would match stamina and any further healing would make resilience better. However, unlike stamina, resilience can be completely useless against some opponents, such as shadow priests and affliction warlocks.

As a side note, I'm not entirely sure how the crit damage reduction applies. It may be applied as a second modifier to your crit multiplier, like talents are; -10% BONUS damage from crits, in other words, causing crits to do 90% extra damage instead of 100%. This would only be a 5% damage reduction from crits, instead of the advertised 10% 125 resilience supposedly gives.

Even worse, it may be affected by other talents that alter the crit bonus; dagger rogues and well, almost all rogues crit for 220% instead of 200%, and res might just cause a 220-10=210% crit bonus, thus only reducing damage by ~4.5%. All this needs testing, but it can only make resilience look even worse.

[edit: accounting for updated math in above post]

I agree with Kody.

As far as your example not only should the necro knights garb not come from nax it shouldn't exist at all. Its armor signifigantly better than leather. Remeber the reason they are in cloth armor in the first place is thier spells, including spells that add mitigation.

No

Thank you, I had not yet done the math that far. So from what you have done it seems that unless you are lucky, or facing a PVP enemy with an insane amount of +dmg and +crit, Stam is by far a better stat.

So do we get to start whining that with the introduction of sockets, we are still getting some crappy itemization? Ten Storms shoulders anyone?

Blizzard will never not have pvp loot in pve instances, a majority of people do PvE not just for its sake, but so they have the special edge with items such as toeps, more health in pvp, etc.. I, as a shaman, would never do the raids if it was JUST to gather more healing loot so I could do what I am already doing, that is a very empty cycle. I am not sure what type of server Killrogg is, im assuming PvE, but the majority of the servers are indeed PvP and if Blizzard did take PvP items out of raid instances, then you would not see nearly as many people doing them. I originally started raiding so I would have the upper hand in PvP, not so I could continue a cycle through all the raid instances; which is what you are wanting to happen.

A bit of a tangent as I don't see anything about it mentioned on the wiki page yet, but has anyone figured out the cost for sockets yet? Or what the ilevel formula for gems is?

For example, if you compare the priest T3 hat to the t5 healing hat the t5 hat would come out a bit lower ilevel if it weren't for the sockets... which means the 22 ilevel difference between these items appears to have been eaten up entirely by one red socket and one meta socket. And given the stats on the gems we currently know about (you can see a list of epic red gems on wowhead and they could really only make up about one fourth of the gap) that would seem to indicate they are balanced against gems of "equivalent" epic quality...

Which has me wondering about the availability of those epic gems and whether that'll be the new replacement gripe over gear rot (since they are BoP and certain roles are going to want certain gem types in particular over the bulk that are likely to drop) but I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in that regard.

The above worries me as well, it seems on the surface as if Blizz is wanting ZG rarity/challenging enchants in order to make an item its actual approriate level.