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Old 01/01/07, 4:59 PM   #1
Teejmanglot
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I have seen a number of posts that seem to discuss the rating itself but not so much the cost in terms of item budgets

I took some items with simple stats and the RES rating and got the following using Subcreations Item Level Calculator:

Generals Dragonhide Belt
21 STR
21 AGI
30 STAM
12 INT
21 RES
33 Healing
Requires Level 70
Item Level: 110

This is an epic PVP reward

Assuming that the values for all stats but STAM are the same, and STAM is calculated at 50% of previous budget costs, and if we calculate its item level without taking the RES, it comes to am item level of about 87. This leaves 23 levels left in the budget. If we do a 1:1 translation of RES to say...SPI (so saying 21 SPI instead of 21 RES) we get an item level of 103. If we increase it to 28 (from 21) we get the desired item level of 110. In this situation it would seem the RES stat is worth 77% of a SPI stat (and likewise a STR/INT/AGI stat as they are all the same, and 154% the cost of STAM as its budget cost has been reduced).

Another item:

General's Wyrmhide Boots
30 STAM
21 INT
21 RES
29 Damage/Healing
6 Mp/5
Requires level 70
Item Level 110

This an epic PVP reward

If we once again ignore the RES stat for a moment the item is a level 83 epic. If we place the RES stat level into AGI we get a item level of 100. If we boos that number from 21 to 28 we again get the desired item level of 110. Again a value of 77%

I have tested some of the blue rewards as well and they seem to give higher values (RES costing closer to 100% of base stats) than the epic rewards. Now Blizz has told us that 25 RES is equal to a 1% reduction in crit chance, but if the RES stat is between 150 and 200% the budgetary cost of STAM (with its newly weighted value) is it worth it? Is 1% reduction in crit chance worth what could be between 375 and 500 HP?

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Old 01/01/07, 5:03 PM   #2
Eylirria
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Mage
 
Whisperwind
Don't forget that the resilience rating that gives you -1% chance to be crit, also reduces the damage on crits by 2%

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Old 01/01/07, 5:14 PM   #3
Mist
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Hand
The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

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Old 01/01/07, 5:18 PM   #4
Kody
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Kilrogg
So far that I've seen the resilience stat is more costly in terms of worth than other stats. Take the sword from the Durn the Hungerer kill quest - it's superior to the sword from Temporus in Dark Portal. Level 68 quest, doable at 66, or a level 70 instance drop.

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Old 01/01/07, 5:40 PM   #5
Teejmanglot
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Mist
The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.
If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?

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Old 01/01/07, 5:45 PM   #6
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Teejmanglot
Originally Posted by Mist
The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.
If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?
Possibly. Remember that 500 Stam sounds much bigger to us right now than it will in a few months.

Back in the the BWL days, how quickly would you have written off the effects of +25 Defense? This is the same thing.


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Old 01/01/07, 6:05 PM   #7
csulok
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Neptulon (EU)
they did say a few months ago that increasing a stat after a certain point costs more and more in the budget.. in other words budget costs are exponential ( after a point ).
shouldnt you add this to your calculations? or i remember it wrong?

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Old 01/01/07, 6:20 PM   #8
Mosh
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warlock
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by csulok
they did say a few months ago that increasing a stat after a certain point costs more and more in the budget.. in other words budget costs are exponential ( after a point ).
shouldnt you add this to your calculations? or i remember it wrong?
Knowledge of the itemization formulas, uncovered by Hyzenthlei, is practically expected around here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Item_Values

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Old 01/01/07, 6:27 PM   #9
Eylirria
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Mage
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Arawethion
Originally Posted by Teejmanglot
Originally Posted by Mist
The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.
If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?
Possibly. Remember that 500 Stam sounds much bigger to us right now than it will in a few months.

Back in the the BWL days, how quickly would you have written off the effects of +25 Defense? This is the same thing.
I understand that resilience would be a less desired stat in PvE than defense for most classes, but for what it's worth, you need to also take another situation into account -- the point where the CRIT damage reduction becomes meaningless because you are immune to crits already.

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Old 01/01/07, 6:36 PM   #10
Teejmanglot
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
So assuming that all mobs still have a 5% base chance to crit, it would require 125 RES stat to mitigate all crits (like defense does for warriors). I know that STAM is scaling very high in xpac gear, but still, at 70, in a PVE situation, is the 125 RES required to mitigate all crits worth the 2500 HP it equates to?

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Old 01/01/07, 6:48 PM   #11
csulok
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Neptulon (EU)
Originally Posted by Mosh
Knowledge of the itemization formulas, uncovered by Hyzenthlei, is practically expected around here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Item_Values
thank you, i'll read it, although i'm pretty sure there was something about exponential stuff.. the example was the old ring of the godslayer and the old band of reanimation, and how they could only add 7 agi while taking away all that sta ( 17 i believe ).

anyway.. nevermind my post

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Old 01/01/07, 6:54 PM   #12
Cryect
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormreaver
Resilence isn't worth it in PvE its almost as expensive as Defense is per point (well 39.4 resilence rating to 60 defense rating for reducing 1% crit) but you don't get the extra avoidance granted by Defense (1% dodge/parry/block/miss) and the other component of Resilence gets more and more worthless the closer you become to crit immune. And since PvE mob spells can't crit you can't consider that as a benefit either.

For PvP it seems a potentially useful ability but maybe too expensive but will definately help out for reducing spell damage.

I need to do something useless.

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Old 01/01/07, 7:17 PM   #13
Lavode
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Near as I can tell it resillience primarily a way to take the edge of a firemage burning combustion/rogue coldblood and such. IE: get hurt less by pvp crits which are for all intents and purpouses unavoidable. Only.. its still too damm expensive for that. stacking some resistances / more armor / more sta on your gear seems like it would be a better choice. Of course, the arena sets are have a fairly scary amount of Ilevel invested in resilience.

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Old 01/01/07, 7:49 PM   #14
Cathela
Still Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Teejmanglot
Assuming that the values for all stats but STAM are the same, and STAM is calculated at 50% of previous budget costs
I believe stamina is 67% of it's previous cost, which means you get 50% more stamina for the same itemization price. The stat distributions on BC greens tend to support this theory (e.g., "of the Eagle" tends to be +1.0x Intellect and +1.5x Stamina).

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

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Old 01/01/07, 7:54 PM   #15
Cloak
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Lothar
The way the itemization base cost is calculated works by adding each stat variable to the power of 3/2 and then taking the total of each and taking it to the 2/3 power. By doing this, you must treat Resilience as its own seperate stat to reflect proper values for its icost. If you were to stack it with an already existing stat point, you would artificially inflate the icost of Resilience.

The more you know, the less you understand.

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