I do recall Kalgan stating they were going to reduce off-hand rage generation a bit while increasing the rage generation from critical strikes a while back (In other words, a buff to two-handed and sword and board), which didn't make it into the live version of the patch.

Blizzard has monitored the rage formula since beta. In each patch in beta they have raised rage generation slightly.

You have to remember 2.0.1 was an older build of beta thus giving us the older formula of rage gen which most warriors on beta knew was terrible.


With 2.0.3 it seems as if all the rage buffs from the old beta to the latest beta versions were updated in 1 fell swoop leaving warriors with a lot more rage then they had a little more then a day ago.


Also the rage conversion is a number held by blizzard. Its basically an arbitrary value and they can change it as they see fit. So it would not suprise me if that number has been changed (and if it hasnt then an older number could have been in its place).

But clearly without even testing it in high detail just by going with what rage feels and how much i have now compared to what i thought i would have had i can say without a doubt rage has been buffed. 1-2 more rage per swing may not seem like much but it is a considerable buff to an experienced warrior

The point about this is, you have to make very EXACT theories, and unless you got a lifetime to spend its more or less impossible.

Lets take your example: You assume that the DoT damage generates no threat. That would be good enough, if your test produces the intended results.

Lets say it doesn't, you hereby realise that the DoT "might" actually be a part of the threat generation. So threat generated is = Innate Threat + DoT damage * modifier.

Question is now: How do your find the modifier for DoT damage when you don't know the innate threat? The obvious question would be to test the innate threat out, but to do that you require the data on the modifier for the DoT. You can't seperate the two of them (aka. generate threat by only using the DoT and leave the innate threat out of vice versa). This is further complicated by the fact that according to some theory (something not necessarily correct, but something you will have to take account for eventually) Lacerate might have different innate threat values depending on amounts of Lacerates currently on the target.

This leaves you with guesswork where you will have to create theories about what threat is generated depending on how many Lacerates are on target, as well as you have to compensate for the DoT damage etc. All well, except for the fact that the possibilities for different threat combinations in this case is astronomically large, assuming Lacerate generates x threat when there is no applications already on target, Y threat when there is one application on target, Z threat when there is 2 applications on Target etc. The amount of possible theories you would have to test out (assuming 100% flawless tests) would be in the billions, and it all goes back to one simple problem: You can't seperate the DoT and the innate threat for testing. If you apply the innate threat you apply the DoT (and the threat of the DoT) as well.

No other move in this entire game has to deal with threat generated by both a DoT and an innate amount in this game, which is what makes it so difficult to calculate.

There might be possible testing ideas around the scenario above, and im tinkering with some of them as well myself, i only lack a testing partner on beta, but its gonna be hard as hell.

Test it on bleed-immune mobs ?

2.0.3 Imp nuking video

They report "immune", you don't generate threat when a mob is immune to your attack, so its not possible.

A good rule to go by is that if the ability landing animation (aka. the animation that displays on the enemy mob when you use an ability, could be the paladins large hammers from the sky when they judge, the fireball explosion on the target etc.) displays, the move has landed and can be considered to generate threat. Lacerates animation is a bit similar to Mangle, so seing if it lands or not is easy, and i haven't been able to get the animation to play on any bleed immune mob. Therefore its safe to assume you can't use Lacerate at all on bleed immune mobs, it won't generate any threat.

Back with the previous live build that I tested my numbers on, crits had a HUGE effect on rage generation. (a 100 damage crit gave 160% of the rage of a 100 damage hit, with the difference becoming smaller with higher numbers).
I'd be very interested in seeing some new numbers then yes indeed :) (I can't get on-line, EU servers are off-line, at least Dragonmaw is)

Jesus, is that at level 60? With pots, yeah, but still...

I get that he's somewhat fragile, but he's also a little harder to target (no nameplate and small), and he'd probably kill me before I could reach him. That's truly nasty.

Can't you control the amount of bleed damage done by when you apply the lacerate? I presume like all stacking dots that each application refreshes the duration - so you can generate a Lacerate DoT delta by slowing the application of the second Lacerate by 1 tick.

That gives you the Lacerate DoT multiplier (which could be repeated at each stack number if it was likely to be an issue).

There really only seems to be three variables: The Lacerate debuff innate threat, multipier (if any) to the bleed damage, and the number of Lacerates already on the target. If it's anything like sunder, the last one likely doesn't matter.

Sure you can.
You "just" have to make it a precisely controlled test scenario. You will have to use the fact that application threat is invariant to the speed the dot is applied at, while dot threat isnt (I assume it gets "overwritten")

Example:
First you apply 5 lacerates in quick succession. You measure the damage another players need to draw aggro.
Second you apply 5 lacerates while letting each dot "run out".

Doing this in a controlled and strict fashion should separate application and dot threat values.
Or am I wrong?

Noone said its going to be trivial though.

Yes, level 60. A pet doing 600+ DPS. Pretty insane.

Testing the threat of Lacerate is possible, it just requires some linear equation solving (and a lot of patience). If you stack Lacerate more than five times, you'll accumulate innate threat, without (presumably) increasing the threat of each DoT tick.

Let I be the innate threat of Lacerate, D the threat of one (unstacked) tick of Lacerate. You should be able to find the following threat values:

T1 = I + 5*D (one application of Lacerate).
T2 = x*I + y*D (where x is the number of times Lacerate has been applied, and y is the number of ticks of the DoT, counting stacked Lacerate ticks as multiple applications; y must not equal 5*x for the pair of equations to have a unique solution).

T1, T2, x, y are known. Solve for I and D, and you should have your answer.

That assumes, of course, that Blizzard doesn't do anything really weird under the hood, like increasing the threat quadratically with the depth of the DoT, but other than that it should give you your answer.

Thats possible, but that theory goes right out the water if it happens to be that the initial threat of Lacerate also depends on how many Lacerate applications are already on the target. It also end up giving you different damage output from the DoT which further clutters test results.

I have thought up a few ways to test this more exactly, but again i lack a tester partner :(

The point id figuring out I and D is that you need to know the value of one before you can calculate the other.

Also, this assumes that each application of Lacerate already on the target is a direct multiplier (aka. first Lacerate generates 40 threat, second generates 80 threat, third 120 threat etc.) when it might as well be 100 threat on first, 120 on second, 140 on third, aka. x*I+z instead of x*I. I find that very hard to believe since even applying Lacerate 1-2 times is often good initial agro, so its very unlikely that its x*I since the difference would be far to great. Then you also have to figure out z.

However i actually think i have gotten a REALLY good testing method thought out to lure the threat of the DoT (D). If i can find D i can find I (or I+Z if I even exists or if its just a static value when applying). It basically goes this way.
Test 1: Apply 2 Lacerates instantly, let the DoT tick out, calculate threat.
Test 2: Apply 2 lacerates but put some time in between, aka. apply Lacerate number 1, wait for DoT to tick 3 times, apply Lacerate number 2 before 1 runs out, let it tick til its done, calculate thread.

In that way you have applied Lacerate 2 times in both tests (and in both tests Lacerate number 2 while number 1 was still running), but you gain different DoT Damage. Then the DoT should be calculateable.

So it seems like we have a solution in sight, now i just WTB test partner. Any healer (healer is preferred for most accurate testing of threat) on Blade's Edge server, US Beta, who are willing to help me out can write in #eu-druids on irc.quakenet.org or here in this thread. Im leaving for work soon, but im home exactly 6,5 hours after this post is written. If you have a healing char on Blade's Edge beta server, please let me hear.

No. N equations are usually enough to figure out N unknowns. There are some constraints like independancy, which is why you have to vary your testing manners in a sensible way.

See you have following ways how you can vary your tests:
*applying frequency (on cooldown or letting the dots run out)
*stack height (you stack upto 2 lacerates in one test and then up to 5 in second test)

These alone should be enough to solve for 3 unknows. (application threat, dot threat, application threat varying with lacerate stack)

But I will stop here. This has gone way offtopic.

You can remove people from the raid if the group leader moves the player into their group, then right clicks on the player portrait and selects 'uninvite'. I have not figured out how to reliably promote someone to assistant, though.

You can promote someone to leader by typing "/promote (name - 1)". (name -1) means that you type all of their name except the last character. For example, someone could "/promote Natura" fine, but "/promote Natural" wouldn't work properly.

This is fairly ridiculous.

Slouken just posted late last night saying all the promoting/removing problems have been corrected.
http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/63887014.htm

Yes but CM posts have stated that you will NOT be able to use the BC Beta Client to access Outlands after the 16th as it will requires a product key at that point.

Considering that the Exodar isle and the Silvermoon/Ghostland are, in fact, located in the Outlands (you don't get a loading screen when hearthstoning/teleporting, you just get the usual 10s "freeze-while-we-resynch-you" of same-continent teleport)...

Merely logging from South America using the normal client is now supposed to be ban-worthy (see changes in the TOS)

http://beta.worldofwarcraft.com/thre...=1993131&sid=1

Hmm, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

/edit: Oops, I misread the post. Oh well.

Oh, totally didnt know that, awesome :) Although i presume the downside of that is that you cant go and pick up a BE/Dranei char with a non-expansion lvl 60.

Well that post says basically what I stated - that you would need a CD key. A lot of people had some sort of weird assumption that having the Beta Client mean that they could skip out on paying $50 for a hard copy of the Xpack and just run the BC Beta for free, that's what I was responding to.