Mosh

Apologies in advance if this is too narrow for it's own topic. I find it highly interesting and I hope others do too. With that said, on to the topic at hand.

For people who haven't seen the arenas yet, here's a good description of the two maps with some screenshots: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/a...B089653D.app01

Basically:
Ring of Trials, Nagrand: Four Pillars but overall a very simple layout a lá Gurubashi Arena.
Circle of Blood, Bladge's Edge Mountains: Bridge diving the map in two, with access points in both ends near both teams' starting points. Two pillars with platforms in jumping distance of the bridge.

What's interesting is how these two maps play out to the advantages of different classes and even builds. In the 5v5 bracket I'd personally prefer the Nagrand arena for it's simplicity and elegance, but most teams should be on fairly equal footing in either arena. In the 2v2-3v3 brackets, however, I imagine a lot of teams will be composed based on class synergies (eg. Affliction Warlock+Shadow Priest, Paladin+Warrior, Feral Druid+Rogue) and therefor have classes with similar strengths and weaknessess.

As a team heavily reliant on DOTs, for instance, I'd seriously consider fighting exclusively in the Blade's Edge arena to allow for various LOS shenanigans. Ranged classes in general seem to have an advantage with the pillars on both sides of the bridges as well. Once you get up, if your enemy isn't in stealth, you can pretty much keep him locked down without allowing him to get in melee range of you.

On the other hand, a melee-based team would seem to benefit significantly more from fighting in Nagrand, where you can get within melee range of the other team only seconds after the game starts, and where there's very little terrain features you can use to gain distance on an enemy.


I'm really curious with regards to what especially melee teams have planned. Will Blade's Edge in the 2v2 bracket consist almost entirely of caster teams? Will Nagrand be dominated by Warriors and Rogues?

 

◊ Bekah

I spent a couple of hours solo queuing in 2v2 arenas this last week (so much time wasted but at least I was entertained!) and as a priest- I found the bridged arena excellent as long as I have a semi-smart team mate. I spent a lot of time kiting anyone who took more than a few seconds processing where I was- really plays to the very few strengths, as a player, I have in pvp. (Quick movement reaction times, very slow hit reaction times- I tend to panic and forget everything when my opponent closes.)

I get 4 shot a lot while I'm still trying to think of the right reaction to the first move in a flat open area, but with multi layered playgrounds to confuse people in, I have the advantage of always having an option outside of spells to achieve some distance and hide.

I think I won my first dual vs. an equally geared toon (a rogue none the less) in that arena- I had more space to move in and all I had to do was keep him 10 yards away until my dots could kill him.... easier with the ability to jump and hide and make him chase me. =)

The open arena was more fun on my mage, less chances for them to interrupt my cast with LOS allowed me more flexibility and the ability for me to pick the location of the fight rather than let them have the initial control. The bridged area was nightmare on ranged with a cast time.

 

Shavnir

The bridge arena is a great counter for Kitty or Johnny McFelguard. Having played them back on the 2.0.1 PTR I think I enjoy the bridge one just because of the flexibility it offers, especially if you start mounted.

 

Dominick

As an affliction lock, I oddly don't like Blade's Edge. The LoS issues I have casting from on the bridge to down below are very annoying. There is a slight lip and even when I'm right on the edge where I can clearly see people down below, I get LoS errors. I prefer the openess of Nagrand. You can still play some kiting games, you just circle around the pillars instead of up and down the ramp.

 

Kolusius

As a hunter blades edge plays all kinds of havoc with my LoS, and a smart opponent can really use that against me, ducking under the bridge, forcing me to jump down, and then closing to my deadzone. Being a 39/12/0 damage spec I lack most escapes that hunters have (scattershot, TBW) so I need to rely on keeping range, and trapping if I dont manage to.

On the other hand, if its not a smart opponent I can get to range much easier there than Nagrand.

That being said, I still prefer Nagrand to Blades Edge, its generally just easier for me.

 

Vhad

I like Nagrand the most and really dislike BEA because of the tons of objects and things other people can hide behind. What bothers me about Nagrand arena though, is those stupid tornados, really shouldn't be there - especially since you WILL see them in 5 v 5 due to time - random dmg elements and knockbacks in chess like pvp events really has no place.

What!?

 

Bubba

Nagrand pillars are great for getting out of LOS and restealthing. And without sprint you can't make the jump to the Blades Edge pillars while stealthed.

As a melee class (and a terrible pvp'er at that), Nagrand would definitely suit me better due to its simplicity. Blades Edge is nightmarish as a class with such a tight attack range. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a lack of melee duo's in Blades Edge once people get their fill.

 

◊ Bekah

They help knock out stupid afk stealted rogues =/

 

alienangel

I'd disagree with the "ranged prefers BEA and melee prefers Nagrand" assessment, as ranged I hate BEA. People you can clearly see are not in LoS in all kinds of situations, healers you can clearly see can't heal you because you're out of LoS, pets don't jump down with you when you jump down, etc.

Nagrand is nice and flat, and lets ranged DPS open up nicely on melee as they approach. And the pillars still offer LoS gameplay, just in an intuitive "you can't shoot through pillars" way, instead of "you can't shoot/heal over an edge unless the caster-edge-target angle is within 5 degrees of 180 degrees"

 

marketa

In 5vs5s
Circle of Blood is melee bottom, ranged top. The melee team dominates the magic team if they drop down and the magic/hunter team dominates the melee team if they come up. Its basically a test of whos stupid/who has more mana. This map has the most potential for winning because you stacked classes and people fell for your trap.

Nagrand wouldn't be so bad if people would actually appear at the start before you ran past them on your mount. You need a balanced group to use the pillars well. Ranged Focus fire on people out of LOS of their healer while the melee chase people around.

 

Melnor

As a rogue, I like Nagrand more. Blades Edge lends itself well to ranged as you stated above. There's nothing like that 2v2 Arena when it's you vs 2 Hunters who stand on those pillars and flare both ends of the bridge. I like Nagrand because I can kite melee around the pillars while waiting on energy regen or timers to diminish and to cause LoS problems for casters.

 

Chmee

Having been a hardcore FPS player for years, I prefer maps that have greater emphasis on situational awareness. Takes a little bit of emphasis away from twitch skills (my reflexes are 0.001 milliseconds faster than you!) and places greater emphasis on tactics and strategy.

Then again, this is WoW :P

 

Symbul

The bridge map is a shitfest of a design IMO. Really despise that one as a Rogue. As commented before the pillars jump can't be done without Sprint while stealthed, on top of all the other crap teams can pull on you in that spot. In my opinion WoW just doesn't lend itself to using geography a lot, especially with the whole ranged - melee interaction. If they took away the pillars there (at least the ability to jump on top of them) and cleared up the line of sight so there's less random shit interfering with it then it would be a lot better, but alas I have no faith that the big blue will change anything in the foreseeable future. Once things are put in they usually stay that way.

Aside from the tornadoes the ring map is pretty solid. The tornadoes are rather unneccesary though, and they're really buggy on top. Pop in and out of sight constantly based on how your camera is. And it's not as if there's a real reason to keep them there.

 

Crossbones

I hate blade's edge. There's all kinds of buggy LOS issues on the bridge that don't make any sense, plus getting caught on the junk sitting across it is stupid. I don't mind terrain being important, but Blade's Edge just went too far with the LoS concept.

Also, I wasn't aware you could choose which map you enter. Is that the case?

 

Symbul

You can decide not to enter if it comes up with the map you don't want to play in Skirmish at least. If people don't get forced into games in Ranked arenas then that's what people will do when some of them get Blade's Edge I imagine.

 

CasT

In my oppinion the arenas or atleast BEA should scale some what with the numbers of player. This b/c 2vs2 BEA is beautiful with som tricks like line of sight, nub warriors charging the pole on the bridge ;) etc.

But when it becomes 5vs5 its just utter chaos where the bridge is to small and its hard to sneak away. I kind of reminds me of Imps in MC as a rogue cant tell wheather you are in front or behind. Yes i know that master control chaos, and out team will prolly master that too. But i think it would be more fun if just a little bigger when its 5vs5.

Do not matter how much you play, you will never get the carrot.

 

Mem

I totally agree with this. The columns in the bridge map make turtling against stealth classes pretty easy. Too easy imho. If they were reachable without sprint, this would be much smoother imho. I don't want to have to waste a CD just to get close to the opposition. Especially since you need sprint later on as a counter to kiting, which almost everybody will try to pull off against a rogue (or a rogue team).

 

Taja

I dont like the 2 pillars aswell. Having a hard time getting a charge off in any form of pvp with that lousy range the bridge in the arena makes it even harder. If i dont go up the bridge im put in combat by dots or anything and can never charge, only viable option is go up the bridge, and cant charge to the pillar. Pretty annoying to meleeclasses if you ask me.

 

alienangel

It's annoying as all hell to ranged classes too, believe me. I assumed melee would like it, guess I was wrong.

 

Elendril

Hmm - that's an interesting question. I *HATE* blade's edge, with the obnoxious LOS issues on the ramps and the shitty range/LOS issues with the pillars on the bridge - not to mention the doodads on the bridge that actually impede movement! If it's possible to dodge playing rated games in Blade's Edge by just not joining (and not losing ranking in the process), I'd seriously consider it.

 

alienangel

I would think that'd only be worth it if you knew your team is hurt more by BEA than most teams. This thread seems to imply that just about everyone is screwed over by the design, so it might even out. Are there teams that are immune to its irritations?

 

Elendril

Many serious PVP groups I've talked to have expressed that they feel Blade's Edge drastically favors melee and DOT classes because of the plethora of LOS issues to mess with any spells with cast times, and pets aren't too shabby either. A warlock/priest heavy team is significantly favored over a mage/hunter heavy team in Blade's Edge.

 

alienangel

I thought that too, but this thread seems to have no shortage of melee and dot classes complaining about the place too. And as a pet class I don't like it very much either because of how long it takes my pet to get from the top to the bottom, or vice versa.

 

Darkchani

i'm a (fire)mage and i love BEA, thoses pilars are nice to get on and nuke ppl from, and as someoen mentionned, a rogue can hardly get on it without being discovered :)

 

Vhad

But if he does get up there without getting discovered you either have to jump down or die and if you get down you are dead too. Its perfect for dot classes with all those objects and stuff.

They really should take out the tornadoes, makes no sense to have them in - apart from meeting joker stealthers just trying to waste time.

What!?