At 60 and in my tanking gear, I was almost immune to crits just by knocking them out; given face to face. I hope I can get to a similar value of dodge/parry/block rates in future.
When you get to such state, healers also stop complaining; crushes become almost the default and they get used to it. That caused me to have half the block value of a full block set; but 50 more block compared to a 10k crushing blow is insignificant.
490 def for crit immunity. If you get anticipation, you'll reach 490 very very easily. I've been running quite a few 5mans with friends, nothing heroic or karazhan. My stats are currently, 494def (20 anticipation), 12k hp unbuffed, 11786 armor, 15.19% dodge, 16.39% parry, 21.85% block and I block for 260 or something, 305 if I switch a neck, and lastly, 4.25% hit.
And I still got plenty of stuff I need. [Devilshark Cape] -> Elementium Threaded [Grom'tor's Charge] -> Crystalline Kopesh
And I need to find some boots somewhere, wrath boots ain't cuttin' it, neither is my ranged, but boy do I love throwing wep pulling. Also got [Timewarden's Leggings] yesterday but need to enchant it. 30sta 10agi, 4agi 6sta, 12sta, 4def 6sta is probably what I'll put on it, to get the bonus. Could go with 3x12sta aswell but I'll think that over once raiding starts.
There's also a pretty nice ring from Path of Conquest questline I believe, but thott is slow so can't look it up at the moment. Oh, and a general tip, go get [Wind Trader's Band] <3
Edit: Forgot one thing, need to replace Wrath Helm somehow, but Zandalar enchant is wub. I got [Warhelm of the Bold] but it's not too impressive. Got [Myrmidon's Headdress] but I hate the reqs for meta gems, besides them being expensive. Might have to go for the green wrath helm, [Greathelm of the Unbreakable]
I assume most of this is the gear to aim for for a tanking Paladin as well? Our dungeon set 3 (Righteousness) actually looks very respectable, a really nice mix of stats, but I'm not seeing many offset pieces aimed at paladin tanking, ie int/spelldmg, that look to be preferable to pure stam/mitigation stats.
I assume most of this is the gear to aim for for a tanking Paladin as well? Our dungeon set 3 (Righteousness) actually looks very respectable, a really nice mix of stats, but I'm not seeing many offset pieces aimed at paladin tanking, ie int/spelldmg, that look to be preferable to pure stam/mitigation stats.
Not knowing the intended role for paladins in raids, I cannot comment too strongly; however I have been gearing my protection-spec paladin in largely warrior gear for tanking since the expansion. Even in 5mans I take enough damage that I never run short on mana while the healer is keeping me alive, and I produce sufficient threat simply by using a spelldamage 1hander that I do not need piles of +spell damage on my plate as well. To me the paladin tier armor has too much int and spelldamage, and not enough block or stamina. Given that paladins have the lowest base health of all the tanking classess and the least mitigation, having their "tanking" set poorly itemized might end up hurting pretty bad. Most "tankadins" I have read about seem to only be interested in the set bonuses on the T4/T5, and then filling other slots with warrior items.
I'm a card-carrying Nazi and I take offense at your suggestion that there was a holocaust. Too bad I can't tell who's a Jew here or I'd ban all of you.
Just as you mention http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.ht...US;source=live , what's up with dodge? Regarding the quite poor rage generation in 5mans, is this a stat to aim for or should it be treated like marriage? (Nothing you should look for but the difference is marginal.)
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. - Andre Gide
Dodge is nice, better than parry rating since you need 30 parry rating to get one parry. Those leggings are 1% dodge exactly. It'll be especially nice for heroic and other equivalent places. As long as everyone can keep on the same 2 mobs atleast, there's generally no problem with rage gen. But no, plenty dodge is better than no dodge.
Thanks for your fast and competent answer. We were just discussing this topic on TS2 these days and I will bring the topic up this night and pwn them because of your [Pwnage Wisdom of the Tankreference].
And just to keep your mindflow busy, what about a hidef-warrior in an arena- environment? Taking damage, crowdcontrolling and binding some damage instead of letting them nuke down rogues?
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. - Andre Gide
There's also a pretty nice ring from Path of Conquest questline I believe, but thott is slow so can't look it up at the moment. Oh, and a general tip, go get [Wind Trader's Band] <3
Edit: Forgot one thing, need to replace Wrath Helm somehow, but Zandalar enchant is wub. I got [Warhelm of the Bold] but it's not too impressive. Got [Myrmidon's Headdress] but I hate the reqs for meta gems, besides them being expensive. Might have to go for the green wrath helm, [Greathelm of the Unbreakable]
I plan on going with [Felsteel Helm] with all +12 stam jewels and the CoT Revered head enchant. Looks better than any helm I can find on any sites showing expansion gear.
Arzy: if you're Scryer, because you can pick up [Thalodien's Charm] instead, and grab a DPS neck from the Death's Door chain.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Assuming full protection spec with devastate, I'd go with the Kopesh.
I still think I'm going to pick the Mark of the Ravenguard for the additional stamina and defense rating.
Draenei is probably *slightly* better from a threat generation perspective because it will have a more level threat curve (more frequent attacks), you can heroic strike more often with it, and the dps is slightly higher which helps threat and rage generation. All that said, I'm using the kopesh because it was free and a [Fireguard Shoulders] is sitting in the bank for when I'm 70 (travel for work + late nights at work = no leveling).
Also, on the parry question - keep in mind that a parry sets your swingtimer to 0, so you immediately auto attack after a parry. That's why the item budget costs more for it. I generally prefer parry to dodge because it enhances my offense and doesn't have nasty side effects in PVP.
I may have missed them, but it seems like for ranged slots people are just showing the highest stamina thing they found so far?
For one, I'm wondering if there are any good high stamina with mitigation stats ranged slots available, I haven't seen any but I think I heard someone mentioning some bow with defense and stamina, but they could have just been wrong. And second, it's possible to get higher pure stamina on a ranged weapon on BOE greens than it is from the dungeon drops right now. I have a 24 stamina Pocket Ballista of Stamina and I'm sure there's more like that around somewhere.
You can find ranged weapons "of the Champion" which is sta/str/def, not sure if that was the bow mentioned. I haven't seen any quest rewards or boss drops with sta/def.
Regardless of spec, my preferred tanking choice weapon would be [Grom'tor's Charge].
To each his own I suppose. I prefer my weapon maximizes threat generation, not mitigation or survivability. That's what my armor and shield is for. [Fireguard Shoulders] is hands down the best non-heroic, non-raid weapon you can get for tanking imo. 14 more dps than grom'tors, 15 more hit rating (no more missed shield slam, hurrah!), 8 more agility, and comparable speed; at a cost of a small amount of defense (6 skill?) and 9 stamina. It's really no contest in my mind.
Well naturally, it's incomparable because one is epic, requires blacksmithing and probably a tier higher. I did not go swordsmithing because I thought it only had crap in it. Did not want to grind to 350 for a rogue offhand. You can instead compare it to King's Defender, and there, it fails hands down. Threat generation from that is not that huge, 1% more hit and the 8agi is 0.32% more dodge which will hardly make a difference, and hit rating you can get from other parts. I already got 4% hit without going any lengths at all. The defense rating on the axe more than makes up for the lost agility, since you said it yourself, you prefer parry, and the axe got 5 def, which is 0.2% parry/dodge/block/-hit/-crit (if you're not there already). I do not believe you can differentiate that your armor is for mitigation and avoidance and your weapon is for threat generation, it all overlaps, especially since the armor is what will contribute to your shield slam damage. But yea, to each his own, for me, it's not a tanking weapon.
Well naturally, it's incomparable because one is epic, requires blacksmithing and probably a tier higher. I did not go swordsmithing because I thought it only had crap in it. Did not want to grind to 350 for a rogue offhand. You can instead compare it to King's Defender, and there, it fails hands down. Threat generation from that is not that huge, 1% more hit and the 8agi is 0.32% more dodge which will hardly make a difference, and hit rating you can get from other parts. I already got 4% hit without going any lengths at all. The defense rating on the axe more than makes up for the lost agility, since you said it yourself, you prefer parry, and the axe got 5 def, which is 0.2% parry/dodge/block/-hit/-crit (if you're not there already). I do not believe you can differentiate that your armor is for mitigation and avoidance and your weapon is for threat generation, it all overlaps, especially since the armor is what will contribute to your shield slam damage. But yea, to each his own, for me, it's not a tanking weapon.
You're starting to get close to a blazeguard when you start talking karazhan loot. The limiting factor is how quickly you can farm the high-cost primal nether. The other advantage of a weapon like this is that it doubles as a very solid fury offhand, so if you're trying to deck out a hybrid spec it works very well.
Not sure what your defense would be, but with the protection talent it should put you at very close to 490, I'm at 471 and several of these are upgrades.
Eventually, you could also get the exalted shield from Sha'tar without raiding.
And I need to find some boots somewhere, wrath boots ain't cuttin' it.
Haven't been able to find anything particularly spectacular but there is a pair of boots from the Scryer's Chain to destroy the Manaforges that has a decent amount of stamina on them, http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=30386.
Bloodguard's Greaves
Binds when picked up
Feet Plate
685 Armor
+11 Strength
+42 Stamina
Equip: Increases defense rating by 16.
I'm afraid i haven't had chance to play with the item linking system so please forgive me. ;)
I love block value but basically have been eschewing it in favor of stamina. Stamina on tanks seems to be limiting factor right now for the hard stuff.
Forgot one thing, need to replace Wrath Helm somehow, but Zandalar enchant is wub. I got [Warhelm of the Bold] but it's not too impressive. Got [Myrmidon's Headdress] but I hate the reqs for meta gems, besides them being expensive. Might have to go for the green wrath helm, [Greathelm of the Unbreakable]
Unless the one tanking metagem has an absurd proc rate, which is unlikely, I am going to avoid the metagem route simply because of the gem requirements. Finding 5 red (orange) gems for my tanking gear is just not possible right now. Felsteel is looking very good.
You are not including the Improved Fort or Improved Imp talents in your HP calcs. You can pretty much rely on atleast one person having these talents in a raid, which pushes fort to 102.7 sta and imp to 85.8. Not sure if this gets rounded up or down, but still, it's another 500 or so HP.
01/31/07, 6:34 AM
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