spronk

Now that TBC is under our belts for 24 hours, how are the warlocks spec'ing for 60-70? I am currently a affliction/demo build, 40 in affliction and rest in demo. I didn't bother getting UA, as I feel that is more useful in PVP and raiding than solo PVEing. Curse of Exhaustion is nice against the runner mobs, which there are many of.

I've spec'd mostly for solo play, if I was running mostly 5 mans all the way to 70 I probably would have spec'd very differently.

Things I like about my build: very little downtime between mobs, I can take 3-5 mobs at once of equal level and end the fight at full health/mana, and my imp does great damage and is a good mana battery. I had to drink perhaps once every 20-30 kills.

Things I don't like: I rarely use shadow bolt (mostly dots+drain life/lifetap), theres no "bursty" damage so if I am getting ganked or want to kill mobs fast not great.

I do have 4/5 T2.5 and some T3, so have some good spell penetration gear. 5/5 supression as well, due to the recent resist and DoT nerfs. I haven't really noticed any issues against mobs, haven't PVPd enough to make a judgement call.

The build worked out well in three 5 mans I've run. My damage was slightly below the hunters and rogues, but not dramatically so. A good tank plus the many multi-mob pulls in hellfire helps. In future instances I think the lack of the felguard may hurt, as mobs start hitting much harder and there are much bigger pack of pulls.

Would like to hear from demo and destro locks on how things are working out for them. My feeling so far is that affliction is good if you have good -resist/penetration gear, are leveling mostly solo, and focused more on leveling than PVP. Destro and demo are better for a mix of instancing/PVP/soloing. Destro is great for burst damage but you will need to drink often. Not really sure about demo.

The other thread focuses more on raid boss damage between the three builds, I would like this thread more to focus on the spec people are using while leveling. I will likely go to a destro or demo build when I hit 70, as the partial resists nerf will have a bigger impact then against higher level raid bosses.

 

Itto

If you're skipping UA, you really should consider grabbing the imp.shadowbolt => bane => shadowburn line, really speeds up chain grinding and improves nuke dps by quite a bit, just shadowburn the runners.

Might wanna consider running with a succubus with all abilities deactivated, in permanent mana regen with just white damage.

 

Myonax

I have been leveling with 7/34/10. Instant Corruption is a must for leveling. The points in Demo are For Soullink, demonic knowledge and improved armors/stamina. Lastly, the obvious 10 points in destro to get bane. I find that that is a solid combo for grinding quest with imp. I get 400ish Firebolts from imp and a little bit of damage mitigation with soullink. I averaged about 140K exp per hour grinding quests in Hellfire. In instances I was doing about 70k an hour with a sub-optimal group.

 

Northerner

Efficiency is wonderful and it is also great to perform well in instances. Still, for levelling (especially in TBC) I like survivability and "I can do this" over everything else. Deep affliction (even still) or deep demonology are my preferences there but destro works really very well if you are willing to play like a mage.

I know, not adding much there am I? I would just council though that you *will* want Imp Enslave Demon at at least one point in your levelling =) Oh, not needed at all but damned if it isn't too much fun to enslave and do it a lot.

 

Coldskull

I'm 0/39/12 at the moment building to 0/40/21. The imp is the destroyer of worlds. With this setup things die so fast you'd swear you were playing diablo 2.

http://ctprofiles.net/2398369

 

Necrotoid

41/0/10 (11 destro at 61 for shadowburn!) is murderous. MURDEROUS. I can pull 3-4 mobs constantly. UA is spectacular as it's a second, very strong and fast acting DOT. I use it on the pull where the cast time is irrelevant: UA siphon CoA Corr, then immediatel tab target the next mob UA siphon CoA corr repeat. Breaks in between are for Dark Pact from my imp, and the only thing that slows me down is going back to loot those who died from the first load of DOTs.

Allow me to coin the phrase which defines an affliction warlock's playstyle: "DOT and rot".

DOT and rot.
Travian: Phased Weasel, -144 | 61, Damascus.

 

spronk

Necrotoid - Do you have your imp DPS'ing or just have him out for a mana battery? The problem I had with UA, and I had UA for about a month at 60, is the 1.5 second cast time. I too am of the chain 3-4 mobs constantly school of questing, but I cast just CoA, corr, siphon then tab to next. The 1.5 sec UA frequently can turn into 2 seconds when 1-2 mobs are hitting on me, and since I am constantly chaining mobs it doesn't matter too much that it takes a mob 3-4 seconds etc to die without UA. Also, why bane/imp sbolt? With constant mob rotation do you cast shadow bolt that often? I agree shadowburn is great, although I like right now carrying only 4 shards and auto destroying any new ones :)

Itto - Why succubus over imp? Seduce when ganked and passive regen? The nice thing about the imp is the DPS, I leave fireball auto activated and the little bugger is putting out massive damage. In fact many times he ends up pulling aggro off my mobs that I just have dotted, lol.

I also don't use shadowbolt, instead I drain life when I need to. So a typical sequence is:

1. target mob #1. cast CoA. cast corruption. cast siphon life.
2. target mob #2. cast CoA. cast corruption. cast siphon life.
3. health/mana check?
a. If mana < 50%, lifetap x2, drain life from mob #1
b. If health < 50%, drain life from mob #1
[use nightfall procs as needed]
4. move onto mob #3, #4, etc. Try to keep health/mana always at 50% or higher, using lifetaps, dark pact, and drain life.

By the way this lends itself beautifuly to the /castsequence command - you can do a macro with something like:

/castsequence reset=combat/target Curse of Agony, Corruption, Siphon Life, Drain Life

Myonax & Coldskull - as a demo build do you focus on one mob at a time or multi mobs? How long for a mob to die? How often do you need to sit to eat/drink?

Northerner - thats a very good point, there are lots and lots of demons in Shadowmoon valley and Nagrand that will help with imp enslave.

 

Necrotoid

Spronk-

Bane / SB: I had the choice of going lightly destro, demo, or filling out affliction. Being a heavy destro addict, it was mostly a playstyle choice for 11 destro. No, I almost never use shadowbolt while levelling. I do use it in instances, on mobs under like 30% health instead of re-applying DOTs. However, being on a PvP server I enjoy having access to Shadowburn, it's excellent for an affliction warlock to have a little burst to finish off opponents. I don't look on it as a major choice, more just personal preference.

UA I use on the first and second mobs because it's a very short cast and it kills fasters than CoA and siphon. One mob beating on me is not significant with a 1.5 second cast. You are right, however, mobs 3+ usually just get the round of instant DOTs instead.

However, if you have UA, there's almost no reason not to pull with it. A cast time is academic before the mobs get to you, and 1.5 sec cast has about the same delay before the next spell is available as waiting for the GCD after an instant spell anyway.

Imp is there as a mana and health battery. Being a destro lock at heart and a careless player, I'm often getting myself in trouble and the ~500 health is more useful than seduce on the average pack of mobs. Perhaps when the tempory Hellfire Penninsula truce ends and 1v1 / 2v1 world PvP starts up again I'll go back to the succubus.

Regarding macros, I've never enjoyed the "one push for all your spells". It may be a bit slower, but having a fine control over which spell and spells in muscle memory just suits me better (like driving a stick shift instead of automatic).

DOT and rot.
Travian: Phased Weasel, -144 | 61, Damascus.

 

Itto

Because the succubus can do white damage, something the imp isn't capable of doing. Free 70-ish dps.
Since i'm heavy afflic i tend to dump a hair above 1k mana per mob to kill them, so having a pet capable of being completely outside the FSR and dealing nice "free" dps is prefered.

Not really worried about seduce, pve server.

 

Fireye

The macros I've found incredibly useful are the mousehover modified macros. being able to just hover over a humanoid, hit a single key, and seduce it without changing my current target is godly. The focus commands are useful as well, but I haven't used them yet for seduce/spell lock/etc.

 

◊ Nfariessence

I'm running 37/0/14 right now (Afflic: through 2/2 Imp HoT, Dest: through 3/5 Destruction) on my way to 37/3/21. UA is great for pure instance PvE and for PvP, but for grinding and questing, mobility is king. I'm well respected on my server and guild and constantly have people asking to group with me and pocket heal (one of our pallies went to IF and respecced Holy because he wanted to come heal me while I grinded. "I don't need to quest or anything, I just want to mooch off of your killing XP").

Duoing with a healer I can kill 10-15 even or above level mobs every minute without ever stopping - as long as they're not undead. Even undead are a safe 10 mobs per minute but after 2-3 minutes I need to stop while my partner drinks.

If solo, I'll generally just pull with a SB which hits for 1100-1800 and load up the DOT's. Elites might get some fear kiting. In instances I am beating even 6/9 T3 rogues with GM/Thunderfury by a healthy 10%.

2/2 Imp HoT is just that good.

 

Coldskull

Spronk: It goes something like this: SB->petattack->SB->SP target next mob repeat. Low on mana? No problem imp will tank and you can drain life with impunity. Yes it is mostly single target. However I'm sure I can dot up multiple targets and let the imp blast them down. The real appeal of this build is in instances where you get well over 1k dps just doing SB along with imp attack.

http://ctprofiles.net/2398369

 

Akari

At 62, I have:

7 / 44 / 0 build, for heavy demo.

I'll be grinding 5-mans all the way to 70 and this build gives the party a viable offtank for most of the 'leveling' instsance content with my Felguard approaching 61% DR to physical attacks (Thanks to Demonic Resiliance), and well over 5,000 HP buffed. It also offers improved life tap and instant corruption, since in 5-man content with the high DPS groups I'm running with, shadow bolts are usually a waste anyway after the DoTs have been applied.

Soul link makes me a highly survivable member of the group, to the point that I have finished the last 20% of some early boss fights by myself with the rest of the party dead.

This build doesn't have the soloing capacity that Affliction does, but in instances, it works great. Even better if I don't get one of those 'I never heal pets' healer types in the party.

My outdoors experience with it seems to indicate that it will 'Do fine'. Not godly as affliction, but as well or better than I'm used to with hunter, and I found hunter to be insanely effective in PVE soloing.

 

Lamaros

9/44/0 ATM

(2 imp cor, 3 suppression, soul siphon, imp life tap)

Best solo spec by far in my opinion. By FAR.

Felguard is an awesome tank, awesome DPS. I have great damage from my DoTs and Drain Life + Life Tap means I am always kicking ass.

Up to 580 +damage, where my base is only 370ish or so. Demonic Knowledge + Imp Fel Armor is awesome.

Grinding UI charge the guard in, DoT up, get the guard on the next and DoT up, etc. Once I get aggro off the guards initial anguish thay're half dead and I just LT and Drain to full as they come to me. Nonstop.

Seriously, this is the best spec and I recomend you respec to it.

Felguard is great for OTing in instances, can tank unfearable elites solo, yadda yadda. Soul Line + uber health for my survivability. Suppression for never missing vs higher mobs.

I've topped DPS in all my instance runs (sometimes being as much as 40% when you count the pet). It's all good. Seriously I cannot see how another spec can touch this.

Not that great for PvPing at times, but then again I have 6k hp (unbuffed), SL, Imp HS (+Fel Armor), Drain Life, Soul Stone, etc. So I'm still not getting ganked, and I just res up when I do.

Only possible change is imp drain soul for imp life tap.

 

Chmee

I still prefer heavy Affliction for leveling. I just don't like the playstyle of demonology, PvP or PvE. Also, without dark pact Demonology will most likely have more downtime. At least I know with 43/5/0 I have NO downtime.

Also, Fel Armor is AWESOME. Getting healed 300+ per tic at 62 is outrageous. I don't think I'll be using Demon Armor again until I hit 70, change to Destruction, and start Arena play.

 

DiscW

I'm 7/45 atm. I've noticed that 2/3 mana feed seems to be perfect for the felguard. He runs low at 1/3 for me, but 3/3 is overkill.

That super imp spec sure looks tempting though...

 

Lamaros

I have zero downtime as Demo. None. Zilch. Nada. Demo also has equal or better damage, and a pet that does damage.

There is not a great difference between the playstyle of Affliction and Demo. Demo just has a DPS pet and one less DoT.

Fel Armor is indeed awesome. All the more awesome with Demonic Aegis.

1/3 mana feed has been just fine for my Felguard so far. I have run low sometimes, but that has been in situations where I've been taking waay too many mobs at once.

As it stands you often dont need (or can't have) both Anguish and Cleave to be on, and turning one off really slows his mana usage. Even with both on though I found I never had to stop for him to get mana. If he got lowish I'd just life tap more and then use a few more Drains the next fight instead of SB.

 

Chmee

I feel another Demonology versus the world thread death coming...



Anyway, what I mean by playstyle is that Demonology feels like I'm just a fire and forget type character. PvP will always be a huge part of my playtime and I hate having so much of my power tied to something so easily pushed aside.

Damage wise... debatable which is better, though the more mobs you add the more likely affliction is going to pull ahead. Does the felguard do significantly more damage than an imp or succubus?

Finally, downtime, I guess it really depends on what are you doing when fighting. If you can keep all mobs on your pet then it isn't any different. Most times I'll dot as many mobs as are around me. The more mobs that have soul leech the more it seems I am tapped out on health.

 

Lamaros

Hehe. No need to go there. Just trying to give some perspective as one whs is playing Demo.

Demo is actualy a pretty intensive class to grind at your top with. You have to carefully judge when to take aggro off your pet, when to intercept, when you have enough room to drain life. Affliction is also, but in a different way. Grinding with a falguard has a lot of aggro and target swapping issues that you dont have in any other specs. And once you get good at it makes a big difference.

As for having a lot tied up in the pet. It's true, you do. But it's more for the SL + Demonic Knowledge + Mastery buffs than anything else. You can still hold your own without the pet doing much in the way of DPS. Thoguh of course the pet just makes it better, and you want it around as much as possible. Fel Dom is really great in this regard, allowing you to burn through a pet if you need to every so often.

Considerably more than an Imp or Succubus being used as a Mana battery. Otherwise as far as DPS goes Imp with Mana Feed can be huge (havn't used it to see if the UP DK bugs are still around with it). But that spec has a lot of other problems to deal with; and personaly I havn't tried it enough to judge how well it works overall.

The taunt and intercept are the big Felguard grinding things:

The fact it does the best DPS is just a bonus. Demo does have a good % bonuses for damage trees, and much more +damage from DK (and Aegis). It doesn't reply on the Pet for DPS that directly.

As far as grinding goes Affliction probably still shades Demo. But Demo is stronger at hard solo content and (to my mind) very handy in instances (Solid DPS OT, Imp, Improved HSs). I think it also has a touch more upfront DPS (though less than Affliction/Destro).

Hope that gives a better idea of where Demo is comming from; not trying to come across Demo > All.

 

Leempi

I will be 45/16/0 for a while (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=NAMriRfkVtboMxc0I)

No coex, 3 sup, 2 impimp and working towards demonic aegis.

Improved drain soul for aggro reduction in instances and for a decent soloing bonus (shitty timezone and no guild groups).

Dots -> drain tanking -> nightfalls. And 3 sources of mana if solo :)

 

spronk

I for one really appreciate the demo notes lamaros. Given how long its taking (well, relatively long :) to level its feasible to try out a few different builds during the 60-70 process. So far I've gotten up to 64 with just affliction and have a good feel for it, I might switch over to a demo build at 65 and see how it differs. I did try on the beta a few times and found myself able to take on more mobs and less downtime with affliction, but that was before all the affliction nerfs.

affliction basically relies on siphon life/lifetap/drain life (with high coeffics) to balance mana/downtime, is demo the same model minus siphon life?

 

• frmorrison

Yah, minus two DoTs, it is a similar playstyle (except your pet can actually tank instead of drain tanking). Worth doing if you want a change of pace.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

nikitabanana

I'm 9/0/44 atm and honestly - shadowfury is so good it's ridiculous. It's all in the 20s cd. I can nuke pretty much anything down before it gets to me as long as I get the shadowfury in. It's a bit more mana intensive then affliction and I don't have dark pact - but it's fun as hell and I'm pretty sure I kill quite a bit faster so that makes up for the time.

That said, I may try deep affliction and see how efficient that is - but I was affliction before BC hit and decided to level destruction.


Rydya / Nikitabanana

 

Dastardly

From what i've seen (and had argued in our guild's lock channel) that going deep in any of the trees has good points and bad points and taking everything that you do (PVP/PVE/Raid etc) into consideration the choice is more now in playstyle than because a build has significanly better stats.

Everything affects your choice, a lock doing instances with guildies in full T3 epics may choose destro because they can nuke away and not worry about threat so much, if your in a 'lesser' guild then you may perfer to have the Fel Guard to act as an offtank, if you do more quest/leveling than raiding you might choose affliction for minimal downtime (Examples are not binding.. dont take any of these as facts they are simply to illustrate the point).

I'm currently 5/46/0 and grind mobs outside instances pretty well (2-3 at a time as a max tho) but in 5 man instances I'm *always* top of the damagemeters and last time we went to ZG I was top 3, But my guild only has MC/AQ20 epics. I might switch to affliction in a couple of levels but it would be more from personal preference than because my current build is 'bad' in any particular way.

 

tbone47

I am 12/41 right now. Demonology really is the more solo-able build imo. especially for harder content. (those quests that take 2 or 3 people) Survivability is key, along with keeping a felguard up at all times. All the +damage you get from pet bonuses are on par with an affliction build.

Affliction is the warlock version of AoE...killing multiple mobs at once, with no downtime. So yea, affliction may be the faster grind build, but not by much.