Antiarc

Hi there --

I'm currently in the process of writing an addon that serves primarily as a gear comparison tool. Its purpose is to allow you to compare two gear loadouts and determine the average sustained DPS change resultant from wearing one piece of gear over the other, given your current gear. I primarily wanted to write this as a way to quantify the relative values of a change in crit, hit, and AP at my current crit/hit/AP levels. So far, I think it's succeeding.

(I don't have a screenshot - the one I took I posted to Imageshack, and I can't find the link now. I'll post one if I can find one.)

I've currently got rogues about 90% implemented, with full implementation for non-dagger rogues (and the framework to finish implementation pretty easily).

To give you an example of what I'm looking for:

- MH white DPS (SnD active) is calculated as: ((((base + APDamage) * (1-crit) + ((base + APDamage) * 2 * crit)) * (0.76 + toHitBonus > 1 ? 1 : 0.76 + toHitBonus)) / (weapon speed / 1.3)
- Sinister Strike DPS is calculated as: (((base + SSRankBase + NormalizedAPDamage) * (1-crit)) + (((base + SSRankBase + NormalizedAPDamage) * (1+ LethalityRanks*0.06)) * 2 * (crit))) * (1 + 0.02*AggressionRanks) * (1 + 0.1*SurpriseAttacksRanks) * (0.95 + hit > 1 ? 1 : 0.95 + hit) / (45 - (ImprovedSSRanks == 1 ? 3 : (ImprovedSSRanks == 2 ? 5 : 0)))

My total combat rogue damage cycle is currently:

MH (SnD) DPS + OH (SnD) DPS + SS DPS + 5-point Evis DPS (Evis damage / Energy per cp * 5, with energy requirements boosted appropriately if you have less than 5% +hit). I'm not currently accounting for Combat Potency (or other energy gains) or poison damage, and all numbers are assumed on an even-leveled mob. This doesn't factor in things such as the energy costs and time delay for SnD renewal, but my initial impressions were that since all gear calculations assumed SnD was up, it wouldn't be a factor in the relative power of two pieces of gear.

As you can see, I'm factoring in skill ranks and talent data, both of which are trivial enough to do, but I don't know other class cycles. So, I turn to you all - I am seeking mathematical expression of a damage cycle for each class, and each standard spec for each class (consolidated where possible) in an ideal PVE environment where threat, mana, and the like are not factors. My goal is to turn these into code that any damage class could use to compare the offensive value of a piece of gear; this is especially useful with the advent of the Burning Crusade, and the deluge of new gear that we're being flooded with.

I would eventually like to extend it to provide relative "snapshot" damage values, as well - ie, how much damage will this piece give me in an ideal X-second burst damage cycle, compared to this other piece; this would be primarily useful for PVP gear comparison - but that's a bit down the road.

Currently, I would like to get Hunter values taken care of first. I suspect they are far easier to model than Warriors due to the intricacies of the rage mechanic, and should provide a good second data point for further developing the mod. However, I don't know hunter damage cycles, or the specifics of the class's damage modifiers intricately enough to develop a reliable model myself for the purposes of implementation in a mod. Anyone out there able to help me figure this out?

 

Zurai

Hunters still aren't sure of our new damage cycle, either.

Right now, for the most part, I'm inclined to think "Autoshot > Arcane Shot > Steady Shot"; essentially, shoot arcane when it's up, steady when it's not, and don't interrupt autoshot doing either. The hitch is modeling the weapon in there; weapons that are too fast (faster than 2.0 or so) are extremely difficult to sync to steady shot without wasting some autoshot DPS, while weapons that are moderate in speed (2.5ish) lose steady shot damage due to the way cooldowns interact.

Regardless, the overall formula for that implementation of a hunter cycle would be Auto DPS + Special Shot DPS;

Autoshot DPS = your auto DPS formula, except the base hit rate against level +3 is 91.4%, and we have more modifiers. Haste modifiers are 1.15 for quiver, 1.2 for serpent's swiftness (talent), 1.03 to 1.15 for Improved Aspect of the Hawk (talent); damage modifiers are 1.05 for Ranged Weapon Specialization, 1.03 for Humanoid/Monster Slaying, 1.02 for Focused Fire, 1.1 for The Beast Within (all talents); crit damage modifier is one of 2.0 (no talents), 2.3 (Mortal Shots but no Slaying), 2.03 (Slaying but no Mortal Shots), or 2.309 (Mortal Shots + Slaying).

Arcane Shot damage = (RAP*0.15 + 200) * damage modifier (from above) (at level 60)
OR (RAP*0.15 + 275) * damage modifier (at level 69)

Steady Shot damage = ((RAP*0.2 + 150) + (WeaponDmg*2.8/WeaponSpeed)) * damage modifier (from above)

Special Shot DPS = Arcane Shot damage + (3*Steady Shot damage) / 6.0


EDIT: Note that Steady Shot is not the official formula, but it is correct from all our testing.

EDIT2: Corrected for patch 2.06 info, and added the level 69 version of arcane shot just in case.

 

Antiarc

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful info. Thank you so much!

I'll post my results from my tests tonight once I get the hunter module built. I'll build it first without worrying about weapon speeds, and then we'll compensate for that later.

Ok. I'll model my functions around the formula you posted, and just make sure to factor it so that we can add in a base damage component if necessary. Thanks again for the info.

Edit again: Do hunters use Multishot in this kind of cycle? Or is it depricated with the 2.0 changes now?

Another edit: Does Concussive Shot factor into the equation? It seems that you'd want to use Conc -> Steady every time Conc was up, provided the target can be dazed, for the damage bonus.

 

◊ Lactose

Mortal Shots + Slaying = 2.309, wrong decimal placing.

This is ignoring Improved Arcane Shot, is it not?

I'm going to in a couple of hours, just want to play Sam & Max a bit first =)

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Zurai

I thought we determined that it was stacking incorrectly and it was indeed 2.39 with both active?

It is, because as far as I can see, the extra 1 second doesn't do one whit of good if you're spamming shots. It'll just come 0.5 seconds after the previous steady (during global cooldown) instead of 1.5 seconds after (right as GCD ends). Trying to modify the cycle loses you special shot damage by wasting at least some time waiting for cooldowns and/or auto. I just don't see any use for Improved Arcane in a PvE shot cycle. It's great for PvP and kiting, but not so hot for stand and shoot PvE.

 

◊ Lactose

Nah, and after thinking about it a little, it's actually kinda logical.
The Slaying bonus seems to be considered a Crit multiplier bonus. That's also what the Mortal Shots bonus is classified as, so with
CritDamage = HitDamage*1.03*2.30
Which is what we used before, we got slightly wrong numbers (too low).
CritDamage = HitDamage*1.03* (2+0.30*1.03)
CritDamage = HitDamage*1.03* (2+0.309)
CritDamage = HitDamage*1.03*2.309
Gives us a slightly higher damage, and fits with (previously) weird Arcane Shot numbers, back before it scaled with RAP.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Bloodtear

For caster theorycraft dps and dps cycles, I suggest checking
http://wiki.shadowpriest.com/index.p...DPS_Comparison and the discussion on http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=568

The creator has already implemented most prefered caster cycles for various talent builds and is good enough to share the code for it.
You can finish good part of your addon with converting his code into a LUA code.

 

Starpoe2

Do you mean something like www.maxdps.com?

 

Boevis

I don't see how that site can be considered accurate in the slightest.

 

Starpoe2

His concept of having an addon that serves as a comparison tool to compare average DPS from gear seems to be comparable to what is on that site, whether or not it's accurate or not, the ideas are similar.

 

Apate

I think that relative accuracy with respect to gear changes is more important than "real world" accuracy.

Regardless, it's Antiarc. If this Sanity/Sanity2 says anything...this addon should be pro ;)

See you, auntie.

 

Zurai

I don't think Multi will be used in a "standard" cycle because the cooldown isn't compatible, and it just got nerfed noticeably for damage (-3% damage, -3% crit). Beastmastery hunters wouldn't use it even pre-nerf.

Bosses cannot be dazed with Concussive Shot, plus Concussive triggers global cooldown, so it's not a factor. You do more damage hitting 3 steadies than 2 dazed steadies.

 

Kolusius

As a marks hunter, multi is still my most damaging shot, and I'll use my GCD on that whenever possible. I also put enough points into imp. arcane so that the cooldown from the shot fits in with my weapon speed -- (4/5 for Ash) -- so that I dont have GCD overlap into the next autoshot break. As a beast hunter, or any hunter with a faster bow this most likely wouldnt work, since it barely does with Ash and no Serpents Swiftness. Multi may be mana inefficient, but I've yet to see how mana plays out in the new endgame, so for now its multi>arcane>steady for me.

Although I'd welcome advice on why I shouldnt be using it, I'm always looking for ways to improve.

Edit: multi-auto-arcane-auto-steady-auto-arcane-auto-multi works alright for me, it could be latency, or slow reactions on my part. The GCD only starts to overlap when I add a steady before the arcane.