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Old 01/20/07, 4:48 PM   #1
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
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Hunters
* "Silencing Shot" now does only 50% of weapon damage instead of 75%.
* The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.
* The bonus damage for "Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
* The bonus damage for "Improved Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.

Mages
* Each rank of "Improved Fireball" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
* Each rank of "Improved Frostbolt" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
* "Counterspell" no longer triggers the global cooldown.
* "Mana Shield" now absorbs magical damage as well as physical damage.

Priests

* The bonus coefficient for "Shadow Word: Pain" has been reduced by about 9%. This should result in about 5% less damage done by "Shadow Word: Pain" for the typical priest.

Bug Fixes

* The "Frozen Shadoweave Boots" will now properly increase shadow damage.
* Players will no longer lose control of their character if they tryto talk to an NPC while mobs are aggro on them.
* The /equip command will now work on pieces of gear that are not in your primary bag.
* Fixed an issue that was causing some players to disconnect in Hellfire Citadel:Blood Furnace.
* The "Corruptor" 4 piece set bonus will now be properly applied.
* The Legion Fel Cannons at Forge Camp Anger in Blades Edge will now properly spawn above ground.
* The Arena queue tooltip will now show the arena that the player is queued for.
* Fixed an error that was causing players to disconnect if they tried to socket a gem that had been gift wrapped.
* Fixed an error that was causing players to disconnect forming a party with other members in the same area.
* Pet icons will now properly update in the Stables window.Improved the robustness of the pet action bar display. It is now less likely to be accidentally blocked by addons.
* Players will no longer hear the gong sound repeated after initially joining a queue for the battlegrounds.
* Having a group invite declined while queued via "Looking for More" will no longer remove you from the queue.
* Nethershards will no longer cost honor to purchase but will cost gold instead.
* Players will no longer be given access to both quest lines followingthe Declaration of Allegiance to the Scryers or Aldor in Shattrath City.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 01/20/07, 4:51 PM   #2
Keline
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mazrigos (EU)
I think it's about time they add SD coefficients to the tooltips. This is getting so confusing.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:05 PM   #3
XCOM
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Mages

* "Counterspell" no longer triggers the global cooldown.
* "Mana Shield" now absorbs magical damage as well as physical damage.
:toot:

This is good news indeed

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Old 01/20/07, 5:06 PM   #4
Geo
Piston Honda
 
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Ysondre
That is a very substantial hit for hunters god damn. I have never seen that multitude of nerfs included in 1 patch for 1 class in particular. I mean im not a hunter and i know some where saying they were a tad overpowered but wow.

Also mages get CS back off the GCD, wtb pummel off the global cooldown please.


Also looks like they are giving priests the lock treatment for SW:P. I dont think that was really neccessary not because of shadow priests but think of those poor holy priests that try and solo.


And no warrior/rogue buff :( sad panda

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Old 01/20/07, 5:08 PM   #5
Elendril
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Hunters have been overpowered for a while. While I'm not sure I agree with all of those changes- the barrage/imp barrage ones in particular - it was clear something was going to happen.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:11 PM   #6
Kasonic
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Orc Death Knight
 
Hyjal
The Improved X talents are the ones that reduce your casting time. Wtf?

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Old 01/20/07, 5:12 PM   #7
Geo
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Elendril
Hunters have been overpowered for a while. While I'm not sure I agree with all of those changes- the barrage/imp barrage ones in particular - it was clear something was going to happen.
Ya but blizzard could have at least thrown some buffs in the way of the survival tree as well to counter balance the incoming hit to marksmanship

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Old 01/20/07, 5:14 PM   #8
Motw
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Coilfang
Originally Posted by Geo
That is a very substantial hit for hunters god damn. I have never seen that multitude of nerfs included in 1 patch for 1 class in particular. I mean im not a hunter and i know some where saying they were a tad overpowered but wow.

Also mages get CS back off the GCD, wtb pummel off the global cooldown please.


Also looks like they are giving priests the lock treatment for SW:P. I dont think that was really neccessary not because of shadow priests but think of those poor holy priests that try and solo.


And no warrior/rogue buff :( sad panda
Arcane shot is grossly overpowered so the change was justified at least.

If I'm reading that correctly CS is still on the GCD, it just doesn't trigger an additional GCD. The old counterspell completely ignored the GCD mechanic, you could fireblast and hit CS and it went off instantly and then you had a 1.5 second delay before casting again. The new one worked more like you cast fire blast, you wait 1.5 seconds and can cast CS and then wait another 1.5 seconds to cast another spell. I'm guessing now what happens is you cast fireblast, wait 1.5 seconds and cast CS and can instantly cast another spell without that second GCD.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:16 PM   #9
Northerner
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Mages
* Each rank of "Improved Fireball" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
* Each rank of "Improved Frostbolt" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
I hope we are using the word 'reduces' in a strange and counter-intuitive way.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:18 PM   #10
Thrillho
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Mal'Ganis
Yeah, I don't get the damage coefficient changes

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Old 01/20/07, 5:20 PM   #11
Xunwael
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Draenei Paladin
 
Sunstrider (EU)
What the hell are they reducing the coefficients on improved fire/frostbolts for?

I know shamans that hit with lightning bolts for more than my frostbolts, what on earth?

"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
- Clark's Law

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Old 01/20/07, 5:25 PM   #12
Geo
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Xunwael
What the hell are they reducing the coefficients on improved fire/frostbolts for?

I know shamans that hit with lightning bolts for more than my frostbolts, what on earth?
im guessing because its a faster cast. I dont know for sure if it was recieving full benefit from +damage.


If i were to guess why they are lowering the damage it is to retroactively buff melee damage dealers because mages are imba when it comes to pve dps right now

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Old 01/20/07, 5:26 PM   #13
Darksaber
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Draenei Shaman
 
Kel'Thuzad
Yeah. I'm REALLY not understanding what's going on with the coefficient changes... maybe they should change the name of the talent to 'Eh It Just About Evens Out' Frostbolt instead of Improved Frostbolt?

Although I wonder if they're going to go through and make the same changes everywhere, like with Divine Fury reducing the cast time of GHeal. It doesn't make much sense.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:27 PM   #14
Soul
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Mages
* Each rank of "Improved Fireball" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
* Each rank of "Improved Frostbolt" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
So the net effect of this change is that you do the same amount of damage with Frostbolt prior to the mage patch plus 5% crit if you spend 40 points in the Frost tree... otherwise, you take a hit in frostbolt damage if you pursue the frost tree to any depth. Ditto for Fireball. Is it just me or does something seem wrong here? The intended effect seems to be to nerf deep arcane/x specs that rely on Fireball/Frostbolt for high damage hits, but at the same time, it drastically weakens deep Frost specs (I can't speak for deep Fire, but I can't imagine they're going to be happy about this either).

I'm not overpowered in PvP and was certainly not dominating damage meters in raids nor do I come near the dps warlocks of any spec in 5-mans unless I get reckless with Cold Snap/Water Elemental. I suggest that the Empowered Fireball/Frostbolt coefficients need to be looked at again to compensate for this change.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:27 PM   #15
Itto
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Rugal
Tauren Hunter
 
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Originally Posted by frmorrison
Hunters
* "Silencing Shot" now does only 50% of weapon damage instead of 75%.
* The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.
* The bonus damage for "Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
* The bonus damage for "Improved Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
Hrm.
Afraid 40/x/3 just became the clear cut top dps spec o_O

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Old 01/20/07, 5:36 PM   #16
Gwaihir
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Gwaiihir
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Those hunter changes are slightly non-sensical.. Improved barrage increased crit change, not bonus damage. Just a typo, perhaps?

<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME

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Old 01/20/07, 5:44 PM   #17
Elendril
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Itto
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Hunters
* "Silencing Shot" now does only 50% of weapon damage instead of 75%.
* The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.
* The bonus damage for "Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
* The bonus damage for "Improved Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.
Hrm.
Afraid 40/x/3 just became the clear cut top dps spec o_O
Because of a slight reduction in the effectiveness of two talents? Multishot isn't even shaping up to be a major contributor to single target raid DPS, as far as I can tell.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:45 PM   #18
Xunwael
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Paladin
 
Sunstrider (EU)
Originally Posted by Geo
im guessing because its a faster cast. I dont know for sure if it was recieving full benefit from +damage.

If i were to guess why they are lowering the damage it is to retroactively buff melee damage dealers because mages are imba when it comes to pve dps right now
I was really high when I got arcane blast, because it was a 1.5 sec cast that hit for 1200 damage, so I announced my joy in guildchat. A shaman challenged me with that his 1.5 sec cast (2.5 sec base) lightning bolt hit for more, cost less mana and has a higher range.

Be that as it may, this change just blows my mind completely. First they give us +10% and 15% increase to coefficient talents, then they reduce the spells' coefficients by 10%? If I used the same talent build now as pre-2.0 I would be doing less damage! How does this make any sense at all? Why even introduce that talent?

"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
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Old 01/20/07, 5:46 PM   #19
Geo
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Ysondre
From Tseric regarding mage changes:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...69810260&sid=1

Q u o t e:


I see.... Interesting dynamic. It makes the Empowered Talents essentially mandatory, then...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That's one way to look at it. You could certainly recoup those removed percentage points in that manner. Devs were just shaving off a little damage from the end-game scenario, as they felt the dps was a little out of line with where they would like it. It's fairly obvious that it's a removal of dps from primary nukes, so there isn't much more to elaborate on.

Cooldown on GDC was a philosophy decision. They decided to agree with you. ;)

Mana shield. You guys have been asking for caster defense in PvP for a while, right? Well, there is something to that effect.
So i was correct in my first assumption that they want to nerf PVE dps output for mages to bring rogues/fury warriors more inline

edit: In beta at 70 mages were beating rogues on single target damage very constently. So this nerf is to make rogue dps at least some what better (and fury warriors are equal or tied with rogues for damage output). Its a retroactive buff so you dont stack your raid with 10 mages for 25 slots

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Old 01/20/07, 5:48 PM   #20
crimsonsentinel
Bald Bull
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
The change to spell coefficients seems like a huge and unwarranted nurf. I wonder why it's applying only to mages though.

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Old 01/20/07, 5:52 PM   #21
Jonno
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by XCOM
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Mages

* "Counterspell" no longer triggers the global cooldown.
* "Mana Shield" now absorbs magical damage as well as physical damage.
:toot:

This is good news indeed
I was surprised that the Counterspell "nerf" ever went through in the first place - to me it really showed a poor understanding of PVP as a mage. That second change is going to change my life - no more dying to DoTs while waiting to get OOC while a lock lies dead on the ground. It might even have me spec Arcane to get the Improved talent too :) :)

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Old 01/20/07, 5:53 PM   #22
Itto
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Rugal
Tauren Hunter
 
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Originally Posted by Elendril
Because of a slight reduction in the effectiveness of two talents? Multishot isn't even shaping up to be a major contributor to single target raid DPS, as far as I can tell.
Nah, because the nerf is pretty much deep marks related.
Since all of the top RAP increasing talents are there, BM, which already was excellent dps before TBC came out, is largely unaffected.
The sad thing is that it is indeed mainly a pve nerf =/

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Old 01/20/07, 6:02 PM   #23
Elendril
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Itto
Originally Posted by Elendril
Because of a slight reduction in the effectiveness of two talents? Multishot isn't even shaping up to be a major contributor to single target raid DPS, as far as I can tell.
Nah, because the nerf is pretty much deep marks related.
Since all of the top RAP increasing talents are there, BM, which already was excellent dps before TBC came out, is largely unaffected.
The sad thing is that it is indeed mainly a pve nerf =/
Eh? Silencing Shot, Arcane Shot, and Multishot are the hunter PVP staples right now. My Arcane Shots are currently critting for well over 2k (on plate since it ignores armor) and Multishot for 2500+. I can crit silencing for something like 1600. This is all PVP related.

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Old 01/20/07, 6:17 PM   #24
Repiv
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Mages
* Each rank of "Improved Fireball" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
* Each rank of "Improved Frostbolt" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.
I'm not understanding why mages are the only ones hit with this type of nerf. Where is the same change for, at the very least, warlocks who STILL have Shadow and Flame at 20% and do absolutely incredible damage with a 0/21/40 fire build. Just seems silly to me.

Wonder if they'll buff our two empowered talents to compensate for this nerf in some way.

The other changes are excellent. Still have the problem of mana with mana shield though. I have no experience in 70 BGs, but I was running out of mana in 2v2s at 60. It can only get worse with HP inflation.

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Old 01/20/07, 6:39 PM   #25
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer> Emeritus
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Agreed that it's a very odd, kind of side-handed way to nerf Mage damage. I guess they thought Imp. Frostbolt/Fireball gave way to much marginal benefit for T1 talents. Which they did, but most Mages thought of them different--an investment required into each line to strongly differentiate the abilities of Fire and Frost Mages.

What irks me is the thought that this decision could have been made by some random class designer who recognized that those two talents might have been to strong, and decided to correct them without really weighing the overall effect on DPS.


EDIT: How do I make one of those cast-sequence macros to cast Ice Barrier and then cast Mana Shield when IB is on cooldown. Is it:

/castsequence [reset=24] Ice Barrier, Mana Shield ?

Is there any way to set up a macro that won't waste the effect of Cold Snap on my Ice Barrier?

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