I've been a "lurker" for several months, but never registered.

However, I've seen my work referenced or linked-to in the middle of several other threads, so I thought I'd register and start a new thread. I spend most of my time over at Nikita's SP site, but I'll try to check this thread reasonably often in case folks want to throw stones, tell me I'm all wet, etc......

http://wiki.shadowpriest.com/index.p...DPS_Comparison

We're using the same numbers. I think it may just be confusing the way I have it worded.

Base => Crits are a 50% adder (1.50x)
Ignite => 0.40 * 1.50 => 60% of non-crit dmg goes to DoT

SpellPower => Crits are a 75% adder (1.75x)
Ignite => 0.40 * 1.75 => 70% of non-crit dmg goes to DoT

1.75 + 0.70 = 245%

Hmmm.... I'll have to do some more research on this.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Would it be possibe to include the buff from Bloodlust/Heroism? I have no idea how to estimate the length of time it will be up, but it's a signifigant boost to Mages, Destruction Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman while being a minor boost to Shadow Priests or Affliction Locks.

Would it be possible to show (via bold, italics, colour or some other means) which builds are based on the live patch as opposed to those which are from previous patches. Only reason I ask is because I'm assuming the top 3 (mages with ignites rolling) are not feasible anymore.

It would appear that many builds in that list are not feasible at the moment, for example, the shadow priest build with mind flay scaling at 81%. It makes the list quite confusing to read and difficult to campare casters.

Is there a DPS calculation for a build like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ITMrbRczZbxczIiz0tsx

Assuming SL Succubus? (proly not many boss fights you can do it on.. but.. it's all completely unrelated to real world requirements atm anyway...)

DoTing and Draining. Or DoTing and SBing.

Have you taken Deomonic Knowledge into account for Demo locks? Why are you maxing out Imp Corruption? With 5/5 Suppression can't we cut down to 7 +Hit? Do these calculations assume a Shadow Priest?

Etc.

Unsure, but it looks like you might be missing a few things that contribute to the Demo lock DPS.

Edit: My Felguard does around 1/3 of my damage in instance runs at the moment. He will probably not be able to DPS on many Bosses due to Melee AOE, but when he is able to he is a HUGE boost to the Demo DPS, and no other spec would be able to touch it, I'm sure.

Likewise, when against a Boss where you are unable to have a Succubus or Felguard out (even if on passive and hidden in the corner) and are forced to use an Imp a Demo lock will lose 10% Damage, or 5% damage 10% Shadow. Though there are not a huge number of these. Often you can stash the pet safely somewhere if unable to DPS with it.

The engine does have an option to use Bloodlust, but I don't know how it affects channeled spells.

Right now both DD and Channeled spells get the cast time reduction.

The minimum cast time is still the GCD (1.5sec)

I'll see if I can add colours:

Red => Impossible
Yellow => Infeasible, but remotely possible
Green => Likely

In the meantime, check out the "less extreme" rankings (second table).
The only what-if build in that list is the 81% scaling on Mind Flay.

First of all, thanks for taking the time to carefully review my results.

Hmmm. I don't have that build. Closest one is 20/41/0. I'll add it to the mix.

Yes.... but not as accurate as I would like. I simply give you a flat +100 dmg gear bonus.

With the exception of the builds where I replace Shadow Bolt with Drain Life, SB contributes the majority of the dmg. It is worth "purchasing" (reducing +dmg) enough +hit to reach 16% just to minimize the SB resists even though it is overkill for your affliction spells. Note: In the Drain Life builds, I purchase much less +hit, which is why they have much more +dmg to work with.

Yes

So far I have only found anecdotal data regarding Warlock pet dps. If you (or anybody) can point me to some hard data I would love to include it.

At the bottom of the page are links to detail output from my calculator.
The last line of each build stanza has "D/C" and "D/H".
These represent ratios between +dmg/+crit and +dmg/+hit.

For example:

D/C=10 => At this particular gear point, 10 +dmg is worth 1% +crit.
D/H=20 => At this particular gear point, 20 +dmg is worth 1% +hit.

Near the top of the post I show four pieces of gear that have equal stat value.
I start with 60 +dmg and then create three other pieces:
(1) 1% +hit
(2) 1% +crit
(3) 1% +hit, 1% +crit
I reduce the +dmg on the gear to keep the "statvalue" the same.

At level 70, the "cost" of 1% crit is about 12 +dmg.

So unless the D/C ratio is over 12 it is not worth it to trade +dmg for +crit. (assuming equal statvalue gear)

The mages all had high D/C ratios.
The priests had LOW D/C values.
The warlocks were right on the edge.

I stopped at 16% +crit because I didn't want to create a bazillion different gear types. I assume 16 slots and 4 gear types only.

Since channeled spells start instantly, it would seem that Bloodlust would not affect that. I would assume an Affliction lock would use SB during Bloodlust.

(edit) moved down the page to "less extreme dps comparisions", saw you excluded CoA there. Leaving the below comments in this post, though, just for grins.


You say you're assuming CoA is up and "other warlocks" are covering the other curses. This really isn't in any way a reasonable assumption for 25-man raids.

I understand you don't want too many variations, but it's an odd assumption to make with 3-4 useful warlock curses (CoS, CoE, CoR, and possibly CoW depending on whether the warriors can debuff the mob reliably or not) that you will somehow have 20% of your raid being warlocks so that fifth guy can cast CoA.

Certainly all my personal dps calculations have excluded CoA (and I would never consider imp CoA as a raiding talent.)

I started with just the "reasonable" scenarios, but after everybody kept saying:

"But what about <insert unlikely situation>......"

I decided to have two rankings: "Extreme" and "Likely"

I know Death and Taxes has started running Karazhan and Gruuls Lair, as I'm sure other guilds as well. It would be interesting if some of them could post SS's of their damage meters to see how tc jibes with the new raid zones. Anyways just wanted to say really enjoy reading your findings dedmon.

I'd also be very interesting to see some damage meter posts from people already raiding TBC zones. Please post =).

Being a rogue I am of course very curious about rogue DPs in comparison to other classes. So even a pm with a "on a good rogue fight (i.e. no AEs, constantly meleeing) rogues are still #1!" I would be happy =)

One thing to note on damage meters, is since Mages/Hunter should have got nerfed this morning with the patch, all previous data is not so useful.

Another point about your Demo/Affliction Nuking builds. Are you nuking with SB or Incin? SL Felguard gives 15% damage boost to both trees, so if you dont have Bane maybe Incin would be a better option?

I have one scenario with Incinerate, two with Drain Life, and the rest with Shadow Bolt.

Provided I include the Shadow Priest debuff, Shadow Bolt always seems to win-out.... not to mention the side benefits of ISB.

I can do some more experimentation tho.

Even with Scorch? I'm surprised. My grinding shows me that Incin seems to hit for near as much as SB.

Yeah, even with Scorch (but not by much).

Incinerate is far more mana-efficient, tho. Since I target the same OOM times, the Incinerate scenarios need to LifeTap less..... but the end overall result is 6% less.

To be honest, 6% is well within the noise margin for any theorycrafting, tho.

However, the real reason to go Shadow Bolt is for ISB procs......

Incinerate is a nice option if your target is shadow resistant/immune.
Incinerate is a nice option if you are 5man-grouped with a Fire Mage and not a Shadow Priest.

If you didn't have ISB or Bane that is when Incinerate really shines, and it replaces SB if you can get Immolate up (again assuming you didn't have Destro talents or a Shadow Priest around).

Question about Cearcasting: I am going with a scorch++ to proc clearcasting then arcane missles, however I find that sometimes I will have started to cast Scorch, I will hear the Clearcast sound, and stop the scorch casting, yet it has already consumed the clear casting buff from my list. Is this how Clearcasting works? Its consumed when you begin casting the spell, not when the mana is spent? If so,
has anyone used a macro to

//Psuedocode
if ( clearcasting == true )
/Cast Arcane Missiles
else
/Cast Scorch
end

Relavent the question -
I have not played my mage in quite some time, however that is the class I chose to play for TBC. I wanted a little play style change from the full snare frost I have always done, so I decided to try a deep arcane + fire build (43/18).
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=kwxV00fzLIuiZVgz0bc Something like this. I like the build its fun and very effective(high dps considering my gear.)