TBC Caster DPS Comparison

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 2:42 PM

I've been a "lurker" for several months, but never registered.

However, I've seen my work referenced or linked-to in the middle of several other threads, so I thought I'd register and start a new thread. I spend most of my time over at Nikita's SP site, but I'll try to check this thread reasonably often in case folks want to throw stones, tell me I'm all wet, etc......

http://wiki.shadowpriest.com/index.p...DPS_Comparison

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by Nejyn

"60% (or 70% with Spell Power)"
Multiplier for ignite is (or should be) +95%, 245% total, (1.75 * 1.4)

We're using the same numbers. I think it may just be confusing the way I have it worded.

Base => Crits are a 50% adder (1.50x)
Ignite => 0.40 * 1.50 => 60% of non-crit dmg goes to DoT

SpellPower => Crits are a 75% adder (1.75x)
Ignite => 0.40 * 1.75 => 70% of non-crit dmg goes to DoT

1.75 + 0.70 = 245%

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by Nejyn

It's unclear from your wording whether this was considered or not but, the 24 resistance is counted against binary spells as well, but it's counted as a reduction to hit chance instead of a chance to partial resist, so it is possible (though unlikely) to mitigate it through +hit gear.

Hmmm.... I'll have to do some more research on this.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Copernicus · 01/22/07, 4:27 PM

Would it be possibe to include the buff from Bloodlust/Heroism? I have no idea how to estimate the length of time it will be up, but it's a signifigant boost to Mages, Destruction Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman while being a minor boost to Shadow Priests or Affliction Locks.

sanctuary · 01/22/07, 5:25 PM

Would it be possible to show (via bold, italics, colour or some other means) which builds are based on the live patch as opposed to those which are from previous patches. Only reason I ask is because I'm assuming the top 3 (mages with ignites rolling) are not feasible anymore.

It would appear that many builds in that list are not feasible at the moment, for example, the shadow priest build with mind flay scaling at 81%. It makes the list quite confusing to read and difficult to campare casters.

Lamaros · 01/22/07, 6:02 PM

Is there a DPS calculation for a build like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ITMrbRczZbxczIiz0tsx

Assuming SL Succubus? (proly not many boss fights you can do it on.. but.. it's all completely unrelated to real world requirements atm anyway...)

DoTing and Draining. Or DoTing and SBing.

Have you taken Deomonic Knowledge into account for Demo locks? Why are you maxing out Imp Corruption? With 5/5 Suppression can't we cut down to 7 +Hit? Do these calculations assume a Shadow Priest?

Etc.

Unsure, but it looks like you might be missing a few things that contribute to the Demo lock DPS.

Edit: My Felguard does around 1/3 of my damage in instance runs at the moment. He will probably not be able to DPS on many Bosses due to Melee AOE, but when he is able to he is a HUGE boost to the Demo DPS, and no other spec would be able to touch it, I'm sure.

Likewise, when against a Boss where you are unable to have a Succubus or Felguard out (even if on passive and hidden in the corner) and are forced to use an Imp a Demo lock will lose 10% Damage, or 5% damage 10% Shadow. Though there are not a huge number of these. Often you can stash the pet safely somewhere if unable to DPS with it.

Kavan · 01/22/07, 6:44 PM

It is a bit unclear to me why you're using 16 crit for all non-dot casters. Have you tried different options and found this gives best results? I'd also like to know what you're using for base crit you get from int.

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 9:07 PM

Originally Posted by Copernicus

Would it be possibe to include the buff from Bloodlust/Heroism? I have no idea how to estimate the length of time it will be up, but it's a signifigant boost to Mages, Destruction Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman while being a minor boost to Shadow Priests or Affliction Locks.

The engine does have an option to use Bloodlust, but I don't know how it affects channeled spells.

Right now both DD and Channeled spells get the cast time reduction.

The minimum cast time is still the GCD (1.5sec)

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 9:10 PM

Originally Posted by sanctuary

Would it be possible to show (via bold, italics, colour or some other means) which builds are based on the live patch as opposed to those which are from previous patches. Only reason I ask is because I'm assuming the top 3 (mages with ignites rolling) are not feasible anymore.

It would appear that many builds in that list are not feasible at the moment, for example, the shadow priest build with mind flay scaling at 81%. It makes the list quite confusing to read and difficult to campare casters.

I'll see if I can add colours:

Red => Impossible
Yellow => Infeasible, but remotely possible
Green => Likely

In the meantime, check out the "less extreme" rankings (second table).
The only what-if build in that list is the 81% scaling on Mind Flay.

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 9:22 PM

First of all, thanks for taking the time to carefully review my results.

Originally Posted by Lamaros

Is there a DPS calculation for a build like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ITMrbRczZbxczIiz0tsx

Assuming SL Succubus? (proly not many boss fights you can do it on.. but.. it's all completely unrelated to real world requirements atm anyway...)

DoTing and Draining. Or DoTing and SBing.

Hmmm. I don't have that build. Closest one is 20/41/0. I'll add it to the mix.

Have you taken Deomonic Knowledge into account for Demo locks?

Yes.... but not as accurate as I would like. I simply give you a flat +100 dmg gear bonus.

Why are you maxing out Imp Corruption? With 5/5 Suppression can't we cut down to 7 +Hit?

With the exception of the builds where I replace Shadow Bolt with Drain Life, SB contributes the majority of the dmg. It is worth "purchasing" (reducing +dmg) enough +hit to reach 16% just to minimize the SB resists even though it is overkill for your affliction spells. Note: In the Drain Life builds, I purchase much less +hit, which is why they have much more +dmg to work with.

Do these calculations assume a Shadow Priest?

Yes

Unsure, but it looks like you might be missing a few things that contribute to the Demo lock DPS.

Edit: My Felguard does around 1/3 of my damage in instance runs at the moment. He will probably not be able to DPS on many Bosses due to Melee AOE, but when he is able to he is a HUGE boost to the Demo DPS, and no other spec would be able to touch it, I'm sure.

Likewise, when against a Boss where you are unable to have a Succubus or Felguard out (even if on passive and hidden in the corner) and are forced to use an Imp a Demo lock will lose 10% Damage, or 5% damage 10% Shadow. Though there are not a huge number of these. Often you can stash the pet safely somewhere if unable to DPS with it.

So far I have only found anecdotal data regarding Warlock pet dps. If you (or anybody) can point me to some hard data I would love to include it.

dedmonwakeen · 01/22/07, 9:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

It is a bit unclear to me why you're using 16 crit for all non-dot casters. Have you tried different options and found this gives best results? I'd also like to know what you're using for base crit you get from int.

At the bottom of the page are links to detail output from my calculator.
The last line of each build stanza has "D/C" and "D/H".
These represent ratios between +dmg/+crit and +dmg/+hit.

For example:

D/C=10 => At this particular gear point, 10 +dmg is worth 1% +crit.
D/H=20 => At this particular gear point, 20 +dmg is worth 1% +hit.

Near the top of the post I show four pieces of gear that have equal stat value.
I start with 60 +dmg and then create three other pieces:
(1) 1% +hit
(2) 1% +crit
(3) 1% +hit, 1% +crit
I reduce the +dmg on the gear to keep the "statvalue" the same.

At level 70, the "cost" of 1% crit is about 12 +dmg.

So unless the D/C ratio is over 12 it is not worth it to trade +dmg for +crit. (assuming equal statvalue gear)

The mages all had high D/C ratios.
The priests had LOW D/C values.
The warlocks were right on the edge.

I stopped at 16% +crit because I didn't want to create a bazillion different gear types. I assume 16 slots and 4 gear types only.

• frmorrison · 01/22/07, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

The engine does have an option to use Bloodlust, but I don't know how it affects channeled spells.

Right now both DD and Channeled spells get the cast time reduction.

The minimum cast time is still the GCD (1.5sec)

Since channeled spells start instantly, it would seem that Bloodlust would not affect that. I would assume an Affliction lock would use SB during Bloodlust.

Lamaros · 01/23/07, 4:14 AM

110 +damage from Demonic Knowledge at 68. It'll only get bigger (a fair bit) with more levels and better gear.

Kyth · 01/23/07, 6:15 AM

(edit) moved down the page to "less extreme dps comparisions", saw you excluded CoA there. Leaving the below comments in this post, though, just for grins.

You say you're assuming CoA is up and "other warlocks" are covering the other curses. This really isn't in any way a reasonable assumption for 25-man raids.

I understand you don't want too many variations, but it's an odd assumption to make with 3-4 useful warlock curses (CoS, CoE, CoR, and possibly CoW depending on whether the warriors can debuff the mob reliably or not) that you will somehow have 20% of your raid being warlocks so that fifth guy can cast CoA.

Certainly all my personal dps calculations have excluded CoA (and I would never consider imp CoA as a raiding talent.)

dedmonwakeen · 01/23/07, 7:19 AM

Originally Posted by Kyth

(edit) moved down the page to "less extreme dps comparisions", saw you excluded CoA there.

I started with just the "reasonable" scenarios, but after everybody kept saying:

"But what about <insert unlikely situation>......"

I decided to have two rankings: "Extreme" and "Likely"