Okay so a lot of the items in TBC are very different from the old style ones that I'm used to seeing playing a rogue. I'm not very clued up about the mathematics behind my class tbh and was wondering what would be the best for me with regards to getting the most dps out of my char. I play a sword rogue with assasination/combat talents. The gear that has been dropping for me and from quests is very heavy in AP vs agi. My crit % has gone really low now, I think its about 18/19% when it used to be about 10% above that but my AP on the other hand has sky rocketed. Am I best to specialise in AP over agi gear or try and retain a good mix? Any help would be appreciated and soz if this is a bit of a noob post!

Aside from some formal things you could work on (tbh/soz), remember that you lose crit rate when you level due to your weapon skill not being maxed out. Well, more accurately, your character sheet at the moment you level is calculating your crit rate against mobs that are a level higher than it was before you leveled.

Did you read over the rogue mechanics thread or look at the rogue DPS spreadsheet?

sorry apate, thats flat out wrong. leveling up reduces crit because of changing the relation of crit-rating to crit % and agi needed for crit %. and the weaponskill has little to do with your crit-rate. unless you fight mobs above your level and you have more weaponskill from items then your max skill allows at your current level turning it into something like +crit (which is nowhere documented by blizzard and only empirical to my knowledge)

Spot on post, but I would disagree with this statement. As it stands now at 70 crit (and hit as well) seem to be absolute premiums on rogue gear. There's very little in the way of crit, especially when we need 22 crit rating to get 1% crit and up around 40 agi for 1% crit. The gear just doesn't appear to be there. It's almost as if blizzard is nudging us into combat builds. At least it's giving that impression.

I wouldnt mind it so much if they were laying on the AP really thick, but I'm typically seeing most rogues at 70 with just around 1300-1500 ap and 20% crit. Wheras ferals are ending up with 2500-2800 ap. Now that would be worth having <20% crit for on a rogue imo. ;)

Maybe there are some super high crit valued rings/belts/bracers that we just haven't seen yet. But they would have to nearly be fully itemized for only crit to get the % back up to pre 2.0 levels I would think.

Looks like blizzard is going for steady damage rather than burst for us in the expansion maybe?

I said nothing about the change in crit rating and agi:crit ratio changing as you level. I was simply noting that people often neglect the fact that your crit% tooltip is based on an even-level target, assumed to have defense*5, and when you level your weapon skill will be lower relative to that. It's a fact that is often overlooked - for the remainder, the OP should refer to the other posts on these forums that discuss mechanics. This tooltip display is the cause of bug report after bug report, so I thought it was worth noting. I apologize for being so "flat out wrong;" was the tooltip changed to reflect your current target with 2.0 or something?

AFAIK the tooltip wasn't changed Apate. I can literally watch my crit % on the tooltip rise a good 1% or so during the process of skilling up my weapons for the reasons you stated (with no change in gear). You were not flat out wrong.

That's my theory.
Less 'zomg, that rogue 2 shotted me' whines (because for every two shot, tht rogue probably had three sub-par openings, people just don't see that).

It prolongs a PvP encounter and forces you to rely on skillful use of your abilities rather than getting lucky on a chain.

In PvE I guess it removes spiky aggro issues. Not that I think it was done with PvE in mind.

Anyway, I'll make hay as due to Hemo speced I'm loving all the high AP. I couldn't care less if you nerfed my crit to 0, my dam/energy efficiency is going through the roof compared to other builds.

And I realise that's a very short sighted view. Sooner or later every build will value crit higher than Ap compared to Blizz itemisation - I'm just not there yet by a long shot.

I suspect those mooted 'belt of awesome crit' and the like aren't in there. Possibly belts of blandness with many sockets and higher +crit rating gems available. That seems to the expansions flavour. 'Sure, you could balls out crit by socketing only +crit, but the guy who thinks about it will get a better return'. Crit with a price.

What is tough is for combat-mutilate builds (41/20) who need both all the crit and AP they can get. It's very frustrating.

Also keep in mind that people with 30% crit had an awful lot of raiding under their belts. Right now, 70s are around the gear levels that they were when they hit 60 (in relative terms). And I didn't know many fresh 60 rogues with higher than 18-20% crit. After a bit, they'll be at a higher gear level, like after you ran UBRS/DM/Scholo/etc. Those rogues typically got up to about 22-24%. The insane 25-30+% crit percentages were only reached by rogues with a lot of time invested in raiding.

Crit is a percentage stat, so it's valid to compare your crit upon reaching 70 to the crit you had upon reaching 60.

People can flip out all they want when their crit dips down to 23%, but can you imagine how happy you would have been at 55 if you have 23% crit unbuffed?

People flip out because they're seeing their characters digress on a key stat instead of progressing. No matter how you spin it, it's still disappointing.

Not that I disagree with you, but I can also understand why people are "flipping out".

Oh, I definitely agree that it's disappointing (well..not dissappointing, because that sounds like it was unexpected, but certainly not a positive). But, if it's any consolation, non-raiders like myself are seeing their crit inch slowly up. Started TBC with about 20.5, and now up to 22.5.

It's just a symptom of the fact that their gear-level massively out-classed their character-level.

I came into BC with 32% crit. I just dropped below 22% with massive upgrades :/ However, my AP is up--but I'm specced 41/20

I kick myself in the face every time I see some insane feral item and the equivalent rogue item with almost no agi and zero crit.

I suggest entering your current gear or equal into the dps sheet and then try to increase 10 AP, 10 crit, 10 hit, 10 Agi and so on and watch how much your dps increase.

I know for me 10 AP = 7 Crit = 6 hit = 5 agi roughly in gear choices when trying to figure out my dps. Im running a 11/21/29 instance build atm and will be swapping to a 16/45/0 build when we get more serious about the raiding. Im using the blacksmith mace MH.

I definitly look more for agility on gear and gems since it give me dodge beside dps equal to twice the amount of ap. The problem is when you need to figure out what dodge and stamina is worth. :)

AP has vastly inflated in value due to the fact crit is becoming more and more expensive in the ibudget. ~20% crit is fine and just continue to stack AP since it's so much more available. When we're all 70, we'll have a solid idea on what is a reasonably balanced AP/Crit/Hit equilibrium.